Mobile Phone Contracts and the DSR
- Thread starter [TW]Fox
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The reason it's so hard to do this is because handset returns used to be a big big problem for networks (you may remember they all used to do 14 day returns in shops - not these days though). Speaking to a CSR here at Orange, krooton I believe is right. Activating the SIM is akin to agreeing to the contract, the phone though is covered via a separate mechanism. You can slap in a PAYG SIM to give it a try, I honestly don't think this is an issue (just factory reset if you really don't like it) but it's worth noting a lot of handsets can now work without SIM via wifi for the majority of their features if you just want to give it a go.
My word is not law etc... my thoughts are mine not Orange's.
My word is not law etc... my thoughts are mine not Orange's.
It's quite clear from the T&Cs as to what they mean. They never say that you aren't allowed to use the phone, their wording is a little strange but they go on to clarify that the things you aren't allowed to do are save things or change pre-defined settings.
I don't see what the confusion is about personally.
:edit: The reason for it is that they will have to reset it to factory settings before selling on again. If you do this yourself I imagine they would never know and even if they did I doubt they'd give a monkeys, the product is ready to sell again straight away.
I don't see what the confusion is about personally.
:edit: The reason for it is that they will have to reset it to factory settings before selling on again. If you do this yourself I imagine they would never know and even if they did I doubt they'd give a monkeys, the product is ready to sell again straight away.
When you buy a mobile contract and receive a phone as part of the service you haven't technically bought the phone - you paid for a service. In this case once the service begins you have accepted the contract and are no longer covered by the DSR.
To cover yourself you should make sure that the service is not automatically activated (acceptance of contract) until you have had time to receive the phone, SIM etc, examine and read the terms of service and then choose to exercise your right of cancellation under the DSR. The DSR allows you to examine any product and return it within seven days of purchase if bought online. Networks can put into their contract that turning on the phone is acceptance of the contract but the DSR doesn't seem to support this.
In short - feel free to examine the phone but do not use the SIM in any way as that means you are accepting the contract.
EDIT: Forgot to add links:
http://whatconsumer.co.uk/cooling-off-and-cancellations/
http://www.whichlegalservice.co.uk/members-area/consumer-advice/mobile-phones-
The key point is that you should make sure your service is not pre activated - if it is you give up your DSR rights. Once the SIM is active you have accepted the contract.
EDIT2:
More importantly this only applies when buying directly from networks - it gets more complicated when buying from a third party and the DSR is not clear on your rights!
To cover yourself you should make sure that the service is not automatically activated (acceptance of contract) until you have had time to receive the phone, SIM etc, examine and read the terms of service and then choose to exercise your right of cancellation under the DSR. The DSR allows you to examine any product and return it within seven days of purchase if bought online. Networks can put into their contract that turning on the phone is acceptance of the contract but the DSR doesn't seem to support this.
In short - feel free to examine the phone but do not use the SIM in any way as that means you are accepting the contract.
EDIT: Forgot to add links:
http://whatconsumer.co.uk/cooling-off-and-cancellations/
http://www.whichlegalservice.co.uk/members-area/consumer-advice/mobile-phones-
The key point is that you should make sure your service is not pre activated - if it is you give up your DSR rights. Once the SIM is active you have accepted the contract.
EDIT2:
More importantly this only applies when buying directly from networks - it gets more complicated when buying from a third party and the DSR is not clear on your rights!
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Yes, they do say that. Read my OP again - I've clarified in bold the areas of concern. It does quite clearly say that use of the product voids the right of return.
Presumably if you are porting in it wont be activated until the port goes through? Otherwise how do you make sure its not 'automatically activated'?
No it doesn't. It's deliberately vague with words like 'but would not be limited to' and 'using any of the functions of the product'.
You cannot appraise a product without using any of its functions. You are allowed to use its functions in a shop - you can test the camera, maybe see how good the browser is.
The only reason they don't want you to use the phone is because you might send it back with changed settings/a picture of your **** taken on it. Yes they use some vague wording but I'd like to think a bit of common sense could be applied here - especially as the examples they give are related to saving things and changing settings.
[TW]Fox;19608114 said:
No, when you sign up to a new contract you are always assigned a temporary number which allows you to use the phone immediately. Technically activation is you making use of the service i.e. calls/text/internet but as most contracts state you need to return everything in it's original packaging/condition - taking the SIM out of the card it is attached to is enough for you to have accepted the contract as well.
To make sure you don't accidentally give up your DSR rights you need to make sure you make it clear to the Network that the SIM should not be pre activated - you will request activation once the phone, contract etc. are in your possession and you are happy to accept all the terms. Again all this applies to dealing with the network directly, it gets more complicated when you buy through a third party.
[TW]Fox;19605834 said:
Well from what I understand, using the phone is okay (as long as you factory-reset it before returning) but using the included SIM is not.
So just get a PAYG SIM from elsewhere and use that for a few days in the phone. If you don't like it, take the SIM out, factory reset, put it back in the box, send it back. No costs incurred, job done.
It doesn't clarify the law on this but it's a suggestion on how to "get around" the poor wording.
This is my intention. It's highly unlikely I wont be happy with the phone, but I want to make sure all bases are covered. I intend to leave everything sealed bar the handset.