Dawn of War III - Thread

Evilsod said:
You mean boring compared to the more traditional base building? Start any and every game. Build basic structures, build basic units, build upgraded structures, build upgraded units, repeat to max tier. Combat, Ctrl+A, Attack Move at enemies.

That is what most base building RTS games boil down to. Having those tedious mechanics does not immediately make a game excellent no less than not having them makes a game boring. The small hero groups taking on considerably larger number of enemies made things extremely tactical in how you approached fights, spoilt only by the utterly ridiculous boss fights that rendered all available tactics completely useless and turned them into cluster****s.
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Tedious mechanics? Funny how the vast majority of the DoW community not only want base-building back, but prefer the original one isn't it? I played DOW for years, until death, using every mod available, playing solo and with friends in co-op and I can genuinely say that the base-building never got old for me... it was a welcome part of the game and I never saw it as a hindrance, same as with any other base-building RTS i've ever played.

The original DoW was much bigger in scale and actually felt like you were fielding some semblance of an army... the second installment was boring beyond belief, a downstep in gameplay, an attempt to add some RPG elements which didn't really work so well, and I think most people realised that fact.

CoH proved that you can have base-building and you can have tactics... all DoW III needs is a similar concept with more relevant base-building, larger scale armies, and none of the persistent hero, small squad BS that plagued DoW II, and we will be laughing.
 
Easy. DoW2 is a gold-mine for them in terms of DLC. Think of the possibilities for selling little bits of add-on gear in such a "create your own" strategy. They want to "leverage" the table-top in regards to people buying lots of stuff to build up their armies.
 
Dont think i will ever understand base building it seems...

DOW1 fight .. fight ... fight .. build base building .. fight .. fight .. fight

OR

DOW2 fight .. fight ... fight .. upgrade base building .. fight .. fight ..fight

The difference is obviously vast and totally incomprehensible to me :D

CoH had 1 tactic out of base buildings.. ur playing the yanks do you go barracks or weapon support.. that is the only thing base building bought to the entire game that one single choice on which units u wanted first

I think the main problem here is people focusing on the single player.. which lets face it is about 5% of the game anyway and also totally irrelevant... multiplayer is all that matters and the advancements made by CoH and bought into DoW2 have totally revolutionised the RTS genre in my mind
 
I preferred DOW2 personally, more fighting less building. Just the way I like it.

An there is more emphasis on trying to keep squads alive, rather than just sending endless units to die and building more and more.
 
Dawn of War II is a superb game, great gfx tons of gameplay and fantastic campaign so I look forward to number III .. now I just need Retribution to come down in price /skint!
 
Richdog said:
Tedious mechanics? Funny how the vast majority of the DoW community not only want base-building back, but prefer the original one isn't it? I played DOW for years, until death, using every mod available, playing solo and with friends in co-op and I can genuinely say that the base-building never got old for me... it was a welcome part of the game and I never saw it as a hindrance, same as with any other base-building RTS i've ever played.

The original DoW was much bigger in scale and actually felt like you were fielding some semblance of an army... the second installment was boring beyond belief, a downstep in gameplay, an attempt to add some RPG elements which didn't really work so well, and I think most people realised that fact.

CoH proved that you can have base-building and you can have tactics... all DoW III needs is a similar concept with more relevant base-building, larger scale armies, and none of the persistent hero, small squad BS that plagued DoW II, and we will be laughing.
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Whats your point? There are a million base building RTS's out there, some generic, some with there own things. DoW2 tried something new and just because you got bored of it (but then you went into it complaining about it not being yet another base building RTS so what chance did it have?) doesn't mean it didn't work. You could approach fights tactically to overcome the odds with your small group of heroes. Frankly with the only exception of boss fights, the style was considerably more fun than 'build barracks' 'build basic soldiers' 'build things required for expansions/upgrades' 'build advanced stuff' that you have to do in EVERY base building RTS at the start of EVERY mission.

Spellstorm was another 1 that tried to mix heroes and RTS. The RTS levels were fun but generally got tedious because nothing ever changed, especially in the SP. It was always 'construct 1 army within the confines of the population limit', 'defeat enemy attack', 'push out', 'have to retreat because enemy attacked base from another angle', repeat till you eventually managed to win. The levels where you only had the heroes were always more fun because you had to genuinly think about your attacks instead of just winning with superior numbers.

CoH proved you can have them on a very small scale so long as there is sufficient depth to the rest of the game. The innumerable hordes of Tyranids do not fit into that mechanic. They could very well balance that against the small, outnumbered forces of the Space Marines, but they certainly aren't gonna balance it against the Orks, Eldar, Chaos, Guards and so on.
 
I hope they make it so you can pan the camera out more, and therefore let you see more of what is going on. There are other games where the base building and resource gathering had been taken out, such as C&C. I thought it was a bad move for devs to remove these features, but that's just my opinion. It's like watering down a perfectly good RTS, proberbly so it will port will less effort to consoles. :rolleyes:
 
Richdog said:
Blah.
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Evilsod said:
Blah blah
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The game it derives from is a table top game made for squads (plurel)

It is not a game for armies and bases serve no purpose at all except for defence.


Think Total War and your on the right track

[1]Allocate a point limit
[2]Decide on your units
* Mass fodder
* Pure Specialists
* A few ultra high powered units
* A mix
[3]Place your units in the areas provided on the map (defensive areas in the centre for defensive maps or on each side on each side for pure offence or scattered for drop zone maps)


This provides some immense tactics and would truly feel like Warhammer 40k

Add purchasable DLC units and WIN!!
 
PoD said:
The game it derives from is a table top game made for squads (plurel)

It is not a game for armies and bases serve no purpose at all except for defence.


Think Total War and your on the right track
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I know exactly what the TT game is. :)

However DoW the computer game was never out to emulate the TT version, that's obvious, so what you then have to think of is how to translate the feel of the universe, a place ravaged by endless war, into an RTS. DoW did this to a much better extent than DoW 2, it felt gritty and the battles could get large-scale. DoW 3 can expand on this and make it truly epic... as long as they also keep it moddable.
 
I didn't have a problem with DoW2 not having base building. What I didn't like was the fundamental change in game mechanics. DoW2 played virtually nothing like DoW1 and a good player of the former was totally lost in the latter. I hated the lack of precision that brougth with my troops not going where I told them to go because there was a bit of heavy cover nearby they wanted to jump into and the like.

In terms of single player, I think a nice cross between the story driven missions of DoW1/DoW2/Retribution and the global map skirmishes of Dark Crusade would work well. Having unscripted skirmishes in an SP game is not a bad thing in itself as it gives you a chance to get to know and test the game mechanics outside of the setting of a pre scripted mission. Having the option for one or two of those (maybe to grind a bit of wargear) in between the formal missions sounds like an SP game I would sign up to.
 
Now i'm confused:confused: I have been reading and watching this thread with some interest, as i have been thinking of giving DoW a go, but i didn't know whether to bypass DoW I and go striaght to II or start with the original.

This would be my first real go at a RTS and I thought I would go for one with a back ground I like, ie. 40K.

Seems like everyone has a different opinion and that both games differ in mechanics. I think i might have to demo both and see which I like best.
 
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