Porsche 997.2 C2S PDK is bloody quick!

Gibbo · 19 Jul 2011 at 22:39

Hi there

On one of my other regular Porsche forums this evening and came across a guy who has decided to see how his Porsche compares to the book figures. Its a 997.2 C2S with PDK so approx 380BHP, though he has added different rear mufflers and put 200 cel cats in, so its probably circa 400-410BHP, but not dyno'd.

Porsche figures for PDK are:-

0-60 in 4.6s (4.3s PDK Sport+ Mode)
0-100mph in 9.9s (9,6s PDK Sport+ Mode)

The results he has got are:-

The performance is pretty staggering and shows how conservative Porsche are with their figures, 60-100mph must be circa 5s.

Makes you wonder truly how fast the new Turbo S PDK is and how mental one must be remapped.

Then the new R35 GTR which hits 60mph in 2.9s and onto 100mph 8s, cars are getting seriously quick now and it seems mainly down to the really fancy and mega quick dual clutch gearboxes, the technology seems to be getting perfected now along with launch control systems.

Wounder as things advance more will we be likely to see sub 2.0s to 60mph in production cars in the near future or is it more or less physically impossible to achieve a sub 2s 0-60mph due to grip limitations or stress on the mechanicals/internals?

Fr0dders · 19 Jul 2011 at 22:43

I would argue, but the racelogic devices are exactly what the rest of the motoring press use to do tests.

unbelivable (in a my gosh it must be true way) really.

Gibbo · 19 Jul 2011 at 22:47

MrLOL said:
I would argue, but the racelogic devices are exactly what the rest of the motoring press use to do tests.

unbelivable (in a my gosh it must be true way) really.

I wish mine was still working.

Another guy has added his results and his 997.2 C2S is bone stock, for comparison sake he has got:-

0-60mph 4.0s
0-100mph 9.2

Again on a Vbox so Porsche definetely been conservative, but the mods done by the other guy have certainly helped a little.

My car is lighter and fingers crossed similar or more power, but the gear change is all down to my ability, which I very much doubt is as quick as PDK......

Fr0dders · 19 Jul 2011 at 22:54

Only problem is the depreciation at this age.

Look how quickly yours depreciated down to sub 40k given the current 911 C2S are 60/70k.

If i were to buy a porsche, it would have to have a badge that held its value (eg something starting with GT) or something near the end of its depreciation like the current 996 Turbos.

Jamous · 19 Jul 2011 at 23:04

Pretty amazing results there Gibbo

Gibbo · 19 Jul 2011 at 23:06

MrLOL said:
Only problem is the depreciation at this age.

Look how quickly yours depreciated down to sub 40k given the current 911 C2S are 60/70k.

If i were to buy a porsche, it would have to have a badge that held its value (eg something starting with GT) or something near the end of its depreciation like the current 996 Turbos.

It why I am glad my car has the options it has, PSE, Sports Chrono, Manual, Adaptive Sports seats, extra leather, Bose, Nav, Aerokit, Ceramics and all the other bits as it helps retain its value. Plus the X51 and warranty I've added.
If you look on Pistonheads for similar 2005/2006 with 30k miles they are still fetching good money, but its gotta be a 2006 model car (mine is) with the right options to make it highly desirable to most or optioned in a way which makes it quite rare, like mine with the Aerokit, PSE, Ceramics etc.

996 Turbo, not so sure, they still seem to be dropping and dropping, certainly superb for anyone who wants to make a rocket for not a huge amount of money as they tune very well, but I feel they will get cheaper as 997 Turbos drop more.

996 GT3 don't seem to be selling, but the 997 GT3's seem to be holding well but you need 60k plus ideally and can see 997 GT3 holding for a while as I doubt there shall be a new GT3 for quite some time now.

Though if I'd have got a GTR I'd have lost lots of money now in depreciation, think I was looking at 45-46k at the time with 42k if I got lucky, yet now they seem to be down to 35-38k already even on 2009 UK cars, seem to be dropping fast. Can see the R35 GT3 dropping to 30k come Winter on imports and slightly higher milers. Certainly a performance bargain!

CaptainRAVE · 19 Jul 2011 at 23:10

You will find that most car companies are conservative with their stats. I know a number of Mercedes models that are a fair bit quicker than Mercedes claim they are.

sigma · 19 Jul 2011 at 23:10

How flat was the road?

In all seriousness that is rapid, almost the perfect car.

Fr0dders · 19 Jul 2011 at 23:14

Gibbo said:
Though if I'd have got a GTR I'd have lost lots of money now in depreciation, think I was looking at 45-46k at the time with 42k if I got lucky, yet now they seem to be down to 35-38k already even on 2009 UK cars, seem to be dropping fast. Can see the R35 GT3 dropping to 30k come Winter on imports and slightly higher milers. Certainly a performance bargain!

Was reading an industry insider column in evo that said the demand for them is dropping. People bought them in their droves when they were the latest and greatest thing, but now they've owned them for a few years and the new toy effect has worn off, and people are chopping them in and going back to their old favourites of lamborghinis and ferraris etc.. as thats where the initial group of buyers (who could afford the list price for a brand new one + options) was coming from.

They will start to level out in price when they become so cheap, that the people that can afford to run them can't ignore the VFM.

nucastle · 20 Jul 2011 at 08:40

I've been in a PDK turbo and it was incredible. The power just keeps on coming and never seems to stop. Fantastic. It feels very planted as well, and I didnt feel as uneasy as i would in a RWD 911 (no matter how well set up it is).

But, i've got a DCT M3 on loan right now, while my manual M3 gets repairs, and as much as it has SERIOUSLY impressed me with that gearbox (it's just amazing), i'm looking forward to getting my other car back.

.... the lack of involvement from these more or less instantaneous gearshifts, makes everything feel like it's a computer game. And boy am i making the most of it right now - you can just thrash the nuts off these things effortlessly. Even so - I'll stick to playing computer games at home, and look forward to my 'old school' manual when i'm on the roads.

In a motorway cruiser (big merc etc) auto's are a must have course. But its all just a little bit ..... detached.

Gibbo · 20 Jul 2011 at 08:55

nucastle said:
I've been in a PDK turbo and it was incredible. The power just keeps on coming and never seems to stop. Fantastic. It feels very planted as well, and I didnt feel as uneasy as i would in a RWD 911 (no matter how well set up it is).

But, i've got a DCT M3 on loan right now, while my manual M3 gets repairs, and as much as it has SERIOUSLY impressed me with that gearbox (it's just amazing), i'm looking forward to getting my other car back.

.... the lack of involvement from these more or less instantaneous gearshifts, makes everything feel like it's a computer game. And boy am i making the most of it right now - you can just thrash the nuts off these things effortlessly. Even so - I'll stick to playing computer games at home, and look forward to my 'old school' manual when i'm on the roads.

In a motorway cruiser (big merc etc) auto's are a must have course. But its all just a little bit ..... detached.

Yes I do have to agree, wheras the ability of just stomping your foot to the floor and the car just gets up and goes and gives you pretty much 4s or less everytime without effort is impressive, one could say its all getting a bit too easy and lacking involvment.

My favourite without doubt is still the SMG from my CSL because it still felt very involving and with how aggressive it was you knew you were changing gear.

nucastle · 20 Jul 2011 at 09:14

After hearing people slate the SMG, and reading up a little more about it, I've gone from initially assuming it was rubbish (I had a manual E46 M3 a few years back) to wanting to give it a shot.

The kick on upshift on the DCT at full bore is pretty cool, so i wouldnt mind something a bit meatier, from an SMG.

..... might chop the E92 for a nice cheap E60 M5 then

Gibbo · 20 Jul 2011 at 09:18

nucastle said:
After hearing people slate the SMG, and reading up a little more about it, I've gone from initially assuming it was rubbish (I had a manual E46 M3 a few years back) to wanting to give it a shot.

The kick on upshift on the DCT at full bore is pretty cool, so i wouldnt mind something a bit meatier, from an SMG.

..... might chop the E92 for a nice cheap E60 M5 then

The DCT is no comparison to the kick you get in a CSL from its SMG.

flibbage0 · 20 Jul 2011 at 10:11

Apparently the Turbo S with PDK can do 0-60 in 2.85 seconds.

Dangerous Dave · 20 Jul 2011 at 10:40

I have been in a PDK 911 Turbo and the launch is brutal it reminded me of the Rita ride at Alton Towers.

Alibaba99 · 20 Jul 2011 at 22:29

Agreed that the 0-60 shown at the top is impressive but how much about the run is known. Is it one way or an average, down hill, with the wind, nearly empty tank of fuel and without a passenger? Also was it on standard tyres or fitted with Cups or similar?

When Autocar tests, the figures are two averages to cancel wind and gradient and also always have a passenger and IIRC a fuel tank of fuel.

Gibbo · 20 Jul 2011 at 22:48

Alibaba99 said:
Agreed that the 0-60 shown at the top is impressive but how much about the run is known. Is it one way or an average, down hill, with the wind, nearly empty tank of fuel and without a passenger? Also was it on standard tyres or fitted with Cups or similar?

When Autocar tests, the figures are two averages to cancel wind and gradient and also always have a passenger and IIRC a fuel tank of fuel.

Well I susect 1/2 tank or less, no passenger and the tyres are Michelin PS2's.

Seem quite plausible to me as there is a couple more guys now posting 4.0s dead on completely stock 997.2 C2S PDK, so it would seem the extra 30-40 or so horsepower has given it the edge.

Gibbo · 20 Jul 2011 at 23:24

Another impressive video - GT3 4.0 RS accelerating too 200mph:-

Fett · 21 Jul 2011 at 20:46

Gibbo said:
Though if I'd have got a GTR I'd have lost lots of money now in depreciation, think I was looking at 45-46k at the time with 42k if I got lucky, yet now they seem to be down to 35-38k already even on 2009 UK cars, seem to be dropping fast. Can see the R35 GT3 dropping to 30k come Winter on imports and slightly higher milers. Certainly a performance bargain!

Not so sure Andy, you were at £40k from a dealer in March and I'm not seeing any UK cars for less than ~£38k, I'll ask for a CAP value tomorrow but I just can't see £30k happening in the next few months.

MrLOL said:
Was reading an industry insider column in evo that said the demand for them is dropping. People bought them in their droves when they were the latest and greatest thing, but now they've owned them for a few years and the new toy effect has worn off, and people are chopping them in and going back to their old favourites of lamborghinis and ferraris etc.. as thats where the initial group of buyers (who could afford the list price for a brand new one + options) was coming from.

They will start to level out in price when they become so cheap, that the people that can afford to run them can't ignore the VFM.

I'd find it difficult not to apply that to any car of its ilk. Ferrari owners tries Lambos, return to the fold, try a Porsche, become converts etc etc. It was a new model with a whole load of hype so of course part of it's life cycle is early buyers moving on after two years.

Fr0dders · 21 Jul 2011 at 20:56

Fett said:
I'd find it difficult not to apply that to any car of its ilk. Ferrari owners tries Lambos, return to the fold, try a Porsche, become converts etc etc. It was a new model with a whole load of hype so of course part of it's life cycle is early buyers moving on after two years.

I guess so, but the 2nd hand values of GTRs held for some time, and have taken a bit of a battering lately.

I suppose this is only the depreciation catching up with what it should have been after demand outstripping supply artificially held the values high.