Electric Cars coming in a year or two

[Glaucus]

Which one? The Leaf has two! (US models all now have the DC connection at a $700 cost impact to the vehicle)

Thats normal and fast charging, two totally different sockets and I believe the fast socket is going the same was as the normal charger. It is what is being installed and invested in.

But anyway, even if Europe goes a different way, it's still standard per large geographic area and not per manufacture and is no more difficult than many other industries that have had to standardised.
We've had tWo proper EV cars, so it's very early days.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Thats normal and fast charging, two totally different sockets and I believe the fast socket is going the same was as the normal charger. It is what is being installed and invested in.

Indeed the fast is the TEPCO DC CHAdeMO socket.

 

[Glaucus]

Slightly off topic, but something I feel needs to be changed.

What I really want is change in rules so I can use an electric skateboard. £400 and 10+ mile range. Super cheap transport to shops or small commutes, mates houses. But to worried about being constantly stopped by police.
It fills a gap where it's a bit far to walk in a sensible time, but you probably don't need and may not want to drive, due to cost or traffic. Or maybe you don't own a car but want to cover more distance.

 

[bsoltan]

The VW E-Up! Is them testing the engine in the body of a Polo. It isn't a guarantee that it will look like a Polo, infact it probably won't.

I don't see how you can engineer a better battery without starting somewhere first, companies can't just turn up with a replacement for a combustion engine in a few years. This stuff takes time, it's going to be a niché product for a long time sure but at least companies are starting to get their research into the field.

 

[Simon]

Well no because you wont swap your battery every day. Estimates are the average user will need to swap the battery a mere 10times a year.

A battery will do 1200miles on a charge ?

 

[Glaucus]

A battery will do 1200miles on a charge ?

No.
You charge at home and when about. Meaning you only need to do a battery swap when doing more than a 100miles and the majority of people's travels are far less than that. Obviously you will get heavy users which would need a swap every day. But it is estimated an average user would need 10 swaps.

Charge car at home, drive to work, work is 8hours. That's another full charge before you drive home and the chances are you. Won't use all the range anyway.
So most of the time there is no need for a battery swap.
Even a long commute Is unlikely to be a 100 miles for all but a handful of people.

 

[Participant]

The thing is most road miles are taken up by people that constantly drive for their job like salesmen and hauliers, electrics won't change anything for that section for several years right? But for the city, it makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[Glaucus]

TNT is experimenting with an electric fleet. As many vehicles do a know distance. Like hub to hub transport and agin they are doing this for tax incentives. TNT have been using a bio fuel mix for some years, due to this. as well. As deliveries within town, might take all day but are relatively low milage.

But yes I think a lot of it is a fair few years away.

http://www.tenbees.co.uk/article/transport/20080515114135/TNT-Goes-Electric.htm

TNT Express and Smith Electric Vehicles last Monday launched in London what it claims is the world's largest fleet of zero emission electric vehicles. TNT's new 100-strong fleet of battery-powered 'Newton' delivery trucks will replace diesel equivalents over the next 18 months. The 7.5 ton lorries will prevent the release of up to 1,299,000 kilograms of CO2 into the atmosphere of towns and cities in the UK each year.

With such savings it's clear why companies like TNT are going this route and onto of that the advertising as well of being a green company.

The electric trucks introduced in the UK compete in performance with diesel equivalents, while delivering a 100% reduction in CO2 emissions and exhaust air pollutants at the point of use. Costing just 9 euro-cents per mile in electricity to run, they also allow significant fuel savings. The 7.5-ton truck has a top speed of 80 kilometres per hour and a 210 kilometres range from one single battery charge. It aims to replace diesel trucks that operate exclusively in urban areas, thereby helping improve air quality and reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

On average, it costs just €50-a-week to power a zero emission vehicle as opposed to €300 spent on diesel fuel. The electric vehicles are also exempt from the London congestion charge – about €2,225 a year – and do not incur road tax in the UK.

Powered by four large sodium nickel chloride 278v batteries located underneath the vehicle, each Newton can be fully charged from flat in approximately eight hours, using a standard three-phase industrial electricity supply which is common to any commercial premises. The Newton also provides additional environmental features such as fully recyclable, ultra light body panels manufactured by Omnia. This reduces the body weight and increases the payload capacity to 4,000kg.

 

[Usher]

Vauxhall Ampera is the one im pretty excited about.

P.S everyone moaning about range then read about the Ampera.

http://www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/vauxhall/ampera-hatchback/full-review/26001-5

This bit sounds a bit of a joke, perhaps the satnav will give you advance warning of a hill coming up

quote from Ampera test driver:

Intriguingly 'Mountain' mode needs selecting 15 minutes before you get to very steep roads, because time is needed to add some additional charge in order to give extra oomph.

 

[MeEsH BaKkA]

I don't see fully electric cars ever becoming the norm in England, I seriously doubt the govt/energy company's have the money or capacity to be able to support 1-2 cars for ever household in England. It is a fact that the national grid without massive, massive upgrading could cope, and I'm not talking about slapping a few new powerplants up, our distribution network would need completely replacing.

 

[Glaucus]

That's already happening, it is being upgraded to a smart grid. To meet EU targets we have signed up for it has to happen.

A 16billion upgrade due to end in 2015 and more than likely further upgrades after that.

 

[Simon]

No.
You charge at home and when about. Meaning you only need to do a battery swap when doing more than a 100miles and the majority of people's travels are far less than that. Obviously you will get heavy users which would need a swap every day. But it is estimated an average user would need 10 swaps.

Charge car at home, drive to work, work is 8hours. That's another full charge before you drive home and the chances are you. Won't use all the range anyway.
So most of the time there is no need for a battery swap.
Even a long commute Is unlikely to be a 100 miles for all but a handful of people.

What about this SUV with 3 or 4 batteries? That wants to go to scotland, also it's gonna take a lot longer to charge

 

[Glaucus]

What about this SUV with 3 or 4 batteries? That wants to go to scotland, also it's gonna take a lot longer to charge

What about them? They are a small sector and one of the last ones to be replaced. The chances are such cars will not survive as a mass product they do now. They will be for the rich only. There's only so much power and so charge rates are fixed, more batteries the slower the full charge time. Although improvements in all aspects will come and heavy cars will have to be made light to even contemplate survival. Or perhaps well get national grid upgrades and all will have business electrical supplies.

The trend for years has been smaller lighter cars due to cost, I don't see that changing.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Sodium Nickel in those trucks is the ZEBRA battery technology identifed initially by Mercedes for the EV A class, good and great for cabin heat as they run at 250C but from a cold start they need 24 hours to heat up ready to discharge and charge and hence when parked use heaters to maintain temp. They were also in the first range of smart EVs built by Zytek.

Results of 12 months of the Cov and Birmingham CABLED trial of EV's have no been collated aswell....

results here:
http://www.mitsubishipress.co.uk/press_site/releases/2011/64675mit.htm

Good fact for me is this one:

In relation to charging behaviour, the CABLED data clearly shows that EV users are not motivated to replenish their vehicle’s battery by reaching a particular point of depletion; rather they are driven by convenience and with data showing the vehicles are parked for 97.2% of the time (23.3 hours each day) it is apparent that there is ample opportunity for them to be plugged-in.

 

[Glaucus]

Nice, will have to give that a proper read. It'll be interesting to see the Nissan leaf mass research in America in a few years. So many parameters and so many vehicles.

 

[Glaucus]

results here:
http://www.mitsubishipress.co.uk/press_site/releases/2011/64675mit.htm

[]

now that's a really interesting concept

The ultimate goal is to allow drivers to take advantage of low cost power due to EVs both drawing and feeding into the grid to smooth demand peaks and save carbon.”

 

[Jonnycoupe]

The smart grid or 'V2G' idea does look like a good use of the batteries as buffers aswell as managing the peak loads which otherwise driver more power creation capability. Trials are also inplace for the GM volt packs, so when they are at the end of their automotive life they can support the grid for many years after before being recycled.

 

[Glaucus]

Right googling SUVs doesn't seem a problem at all, still 8hour normal charge and as fast as 20min fast charge, 125mile range.
http://www.made-in-china.com/showro...Ypr/China-ZOTYE-Electric-SUV-JNJ6400EVL-.html

USA release soon.

Actually only has a 1kwh more than the Nissan leaf. 24kwh compare to 24kwh for the Nissan leaf.

Land rover range-e is an experimental hybrid that is going to be trialed, so the company can gather data on usage, although that's only got a 20mile range on batteries alone.

 

[MeEsH BaKkA]

That's already happening, it is being upgraded to a smart grid. To meet EU targets we have signed up for it has to happen.

A 16billion upgrade due to end in 2015 and more than likely further upgrades after that.

The G2V system seems a very good idea, but the issue is there will be millions of cars to charge, which is a load the current distribution system in this country would not be able to handle, all power lines, step up/step down transformers and local power infrastructure have a limited load capacity. The higher the load the less efficient the supply grid becomes

Edit: if you think about it most supply cables into a house are as old as the property, mine for example is around 50 years old, I was not designed for the load even it's supplying today. I think my incomer is 10mm feeding a 60a cutout...

 

[Glaucus]

The G2V system seems a very good idea, but the issue is there will be millions of cars to charge, which is a load the current distribution system in this country would not be able to handle, all power lines, step up/step down transformers and local power infrastructure have a limited load capacity. The higher the load the less efficient the supply grid becomes

But don't you think as EV Market increases the grid will be updated as well.

By 2050 we have to be almost total off fossil fuels.

I believe the next milestone is 2020,
And happens to be 20% renewable energy, 20% Reduction in carbon release and 20% energy reduction.
Eu is on target for the first two but not the last. But they have been having talks and stuff and expect more policies similar to the stopping the sale of normal lightbulbs