Landlord wants to charge me for using a deposit protection scheme

JonJ678 · 21 Jul 2011 at 17:29

The standard advice is probably to go and see the CAB, which will happen tomorrow. I'm fairly sure he can't charge me for this scheme, but would like to hear your thoughts.

I'm approaching the end of a 12 month assured shorthold tenancy and considering renewing it. As required by law, my deposit is held in a protection scheme. Specifically, DPS, who are free to landlord and tenant. Their phoneline confirms that landlords shouldn't charge their tenant anything for this.

I've been presented with an invoice to cover extension fees, £264 in total. It includes the line:
Re submission of Deposit Protection Scheme & Administration Fee £45

£45 for a free service strikes me as a bit off, so I've simply refused to pay it. Consequently said landlord is refusing to renew the tenancy, and we've largely ground to a halt. Where should I go from here?

Cheers

Baxter · 21 Jul 2011 at 17:35

Find somewhere else to live......?

I am a landlord for a property and have never heard of charging to use any deposit scheme

Rainmaker · 21 Jul 2011 at 17:36

As you said, best speak to CAB. I presume they're using the charge for their 'time' and 'admin costs' rather than any supposed fees paid to a free service. As is always the case with short hold tenancies; you have rights, but as soon as you exercise them the landlord is liable to evict you and find a less 'bothersome' tenant.

Bloody hate private landlords... lol

Baxter · 21 Jul 2011 at 17:38

regarding 'time' and 'admin costs' these are non existent for the deposit scheme as it is a one time only thing which does not need renewing after each year

Rainmaker · 21 Jul 2011 at 17:40

Baxter said:
regarding 'time' and 'admin costs' these are non existent for the deposit scheme as it is a one time only thing which does not need renewing after each year

Sounds like the agent/ll is just being greedy then. Unfortunately as I said above, you can query it but if they stick to their guns it's either take the kick to the nuts (and wallet), or find somewhere else to live. :-/

JonJ678 · 21 Jul 2011 at 17:49

Cheers. I'm looking for a new place to live, as even if I get him to back down on this charge the process has rather soured our working relationship. Good to know my options.

Who regulates landlords / estate agents? I'm not his only tenant, and I doubt I'm the only one being invoiced. If it turns out the charge is illegal then it's worth reporting.

Glaucus · 21 Jul 2011 at 17:52

Probably trying a fee to fill the paper work in, I doubt there's anything to stop them charging it.best just to speak to him.
Never paid anything to continue tenancy, after all they have the property filled with no gap. Meaning they make far more than if you leave anyway.

I would chat to him and depending how it went make it clear you were prepared to leave and that if the place was empty for a couple of weeks that would cost him several hundred pounds.

In future if you might want to live there longer get 6month agreements which automatically turn into rolling month contracts until you or them say otherwise.

-westy- · 21 Jul 2011 at 17:52

Is it really worth the hassle of moving for the sake of £45 though? Hiring a van to move your things with would cost more, so if he's refusing to budge, then surely its just worth paying and forgetting about?

I'm not agreeing that it's right, its taking the ****, but it seems like you're causing yourself a lot of hassle over a relatively small sum.

Dark Sun · 21 Jul 2011 at 17:58

-westy- said:
Is it really worth the hassle of moving for the sake of £45 though? Hiring a van to move your things with would cost more, so if he's refusing to budge, then surely its just worth paying and forgetting about?

I'm not agreeing that it's right, its taking the ****, but it seems like you're causing yourself a lot of hassle over a relatively small sum.

That's probably what the landlord is banking on.

JonJ678 · 21 Jul 2011 at 17:59

It's not only £45 unfortunately, that's merely the part I can readily dispute. The charge to renew is £264, which is close enough to the cost of moving to give me pause.

I found out about the intention to invoice me on the 18th this month, when my tenancy expires on the 29th. No prior mention of any charge, as above I reasoned that there would be no advantage to levying one. So I feel he's sprung a significant charge on me at the last minute, relying on the inconvenience of moving to extract funds.

On a related note, he's fairly insistent that I'll have to hand over the keys at the end of the month. As he hasn't bothered to serve a notice to quit, I think this is intimidation, intended to encourage me to pay the fee.

Emlyn_Dewar · 21 Jul 2011 at 18:04

Just move elsewhere, your landlord sounds like a ****.

Dunks · 21 Jul 2011 at 18:07

JonJ678 said:
On a related note, he's fairly insistent that I'll have to hand over the keys at the end of the month. As he hasn't bothered to serve a notice to quit, I think this is intimidation, intended to encourage me to pay the fee.

If that's when your tenancy ends and you've not renewed surely he's well within his rights?

dekez · 21 Jul 2011 at 18:15

If it's an assured shorthold tenancy your landlord will have to give you 2 months written notice for you to leave. Even if the tenancy is going to expire they still have to give this notice in order to get a court order to evict you. Sometimes landlords give this notice at the beginning of a tenancy so they don't forget, but your landlord sounds like he has no idea what he is doing so I doubt he's done this but it's worth checking.

Some more info here: http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_a...private_tenancies/assured_shorthold_tenancies

JonJ678 · 21 Jul 2011 at 18:24

Dunks said:
If that's when your tenancy ends and you've not renewed surely he's well within his rights?

This seems to be a difficult question. Were I still within the tenancy, I can be evicted provided there are grounds for doing so. At the end of the tenancy, it becomes a periodic monthly tenancy if it is not renewed.

Once is has become a period tenancy, two months notice is required. However at present there has been an offer to renew, which I have rejected on the grounds that the fee is excessive. As such it is possible that I can be thrown out without notice. I'm finding it difficult to get my head around that idea, as it seems an enormous loophole.

Either it is possible to offer to renew on condition that the tenant pays an arbitrary fee, which makes it trivial to throw people out without notice at the end of the lease (by imposing an excessive fee).
Or you cannot legitimately tag an additional one off fee onto the contract, in which case no valid offer to renew has been made.

edit: It is indeed an assured shorthold tenancy, I should have included that in the OP.

dekez · 21 Jul 2011 at 18:37

As it stands you can leave at the end of the fixed term without giving any notice, but your landlord must still give 2 months notice, see here:

http://www.tenancyagreementservice.co.uk/ending-a-tenancy-agreement.htm

under Ending a fixed term tenancy agreement

"A landlord can end a tenancy at the end of the fixed term (usually 6 months) provided that the tenant has been given two months written notice in the form of a section 21 notice to quit. "

cart · 21 Jul 2011 at 18:43

Once is has become a period tenancy, two months notice is required. However at present there has been an offer to renew, which I have rejected on the grounds that the fee is excessive. As such it is possible that I can be thrown out without notice.

If you remain in the property after the 29th then your tenancy becomes a periodic tenancy (with the 2 months notice requirement), short of you voluntarily moving out the landlord has to take court action to remove you. Therefore you can't just be thrown out but considering the landlord's actions e.g. demanding the keys without benefit of a s.21 notice for possession, imposing fees, you may want to consider moving anyway.

meghatronic · 21 Jul 2011 at 18:49

-westy- said:
Is it really worth the hassle of moving for the sake of £45 though? Hiring a van to move your things with would cost more, so if he's refusing to budge, then surely its just worth paying and forgetting about?

I'm not agreeing that it's right, its taking the ****, but it seems like you're causing yourself a lot of hassle over a relatively small sum.

Principle. A powerful thing.

Rainmaker · 21 Jul 2011 at 22:24

cart said:
If you remain in the property after the 29th then your tenancy becomes a periodic tenancy (with the 2 months notice requirement), short of you voluntarily moving out the landlord has to take court action to remove you. Therefore you can't just be thrown out but considering the landlord's actions e.g. demanding the keys without benefit of a s.21 notice for possession, imposing fees, you may want to consider moving anyway.

Indeed. Without a s21 notice and then a possession order from the courts (if he doesn't vacate), then simply requiring the keys or indicating that he has to vacate immediately amounts to an unlawful eviction or at least (in the latter scenario) harassment.

Hopefully it won't go that far though. Just have a quiet word and see what he says. As was said above negotiating his steep fees will still save him money over having to find a new tenant and going without rent etc. Don't go in all guns blazing, quoting chapter and verse of the law. Just be reasonable and polite and see what he comes back with.

dowie · 21 Jul 2011 at 22:53

JonJ678 said:
It's not only £45 unfortunately, that's merely the part I can readily dispute. The charge to renew is £264, which is close enough to the cost of moving to give me pause.

Are you in a really desirable property or paying a fair bit less in rent than other similar places?

Rent etc.. is always negotiable, the landlord doesn't want an empty property any more than you want the expense of moving - unless you've got a sweet deal already then perhaps just tell the guy you'd like to stay but don't want to pay the fees. They're likely fees from the agent/managing company anyway - the Landlord can then chose to pay them himself or can take a chance and try to find a new tenant (he's not necessarily going to find one straight away so it could cost him a few hundred to do that too). Another option would be to see if the Landlord wanted to deal with you directly rather than through an agency this time and simply bypass the fees - agents hate this but meh whatever - estate agents are generally scummy little wretches anyway so don't lose sleep screwing them over.

Slade2 · 21 Jul 2011 at 23:14

I would actually do a little more research myself and then quote chapter and verse at him. I would then depending on how it turns go from there. There is no way he can kick you out until he gives you your notice and then you have 2 months anyway.

I really hate the way estate agents and landlords try to exort money from people in this way I remember we had to pay a credit search fee of something stupid like £175 when I moved into my first flat along with a months rent as deposit and a month upfront. Its a lot of money to pay out.

I moved a lot during my time as a student and we had a torrid time in one property becuase the bath was leaking and we informed the landlord about it but he did nothing about it for about 3 months. It wasnt leaking bad at the time but he later discovered the damage was quite extensive and cost a lot of money to fix, also several issues with broken boilers and stuff over the winter which were not fixed but meh I was a student at the time.