Nokia...going, going...not quite gone!

Tute · 21 Jul 2011 at 23:07

Trouble is, nowadays mobile phone OSes are polarising. This can be seen by asking someone with a Blackberry what they think of Android/iOS, Android what they think of Blackberry/iOS and iOS what they think of Android/Blackberry.

Nokia fell too far behind and the market has already made it's choices. People aren't going to be easy to convince to switch to WP7 - too many people will call it "crap" whether it is or not.

Me? I'm not sold on it but I like it more than Android. I won't be dropping iOS for it though.

loltim · 21 Jul 2011 at 23:09

don't get it? N8 is a great phone.

Tute · 21 Jul 2011 at 23:16

The N8 was let down by it's OS somewhat though.

sarge78 · 21 Jul 2011 at 23:29

^ Defiantly, if sexy Nokia hardware + Mango + aggressive marketing doesn't do it, northing will...

I just hope webOS takes off or Google/Apple rip it off (maybe RIM could make a great QNX 4.3" slate phone?)
Going back to iOS/Android feels just flat, old and boring (iOS esp) Nothing happens when I swipe UP ffs!!!!

Tute · 21 Jul 2011 at 23:30

I still wish Nokia had pushed Meego hard. They almost didn't realise they were onto something good there, especially with Intel backing it as well.

Ho-hum.

rapid64k · 21 Jul 2011 at 23:33

I have said this time and time again......so i wont say it again....well just one more time...N97...bad deal....turning nose up at Android.......Micro Soft to buy Nokia.

Mike B · 21 Jul 2011 at 23:45

I would love to buy a nokia again the hardware is always top notch but while they have these shoddy os's its never gonna happen.

Amp34 · 22 Jul 2011 at 00:24

Never heard of that website but the author of that article sounds life an MS hating apple/symbian loving person, up his own **** with his "predictions". Just me?

On to the topic at hand Nokia have been hemoreging sales and cash for a long time (weren't they making a loss a couple of years ago?), meego seems to have got some rave reviews but would it get the developer support? As for WP well 2% market share in its first year isn't bad when you consider there are about 5 handsets and it has a fight with Android and iOS. What were the sales of android units first year or iOS? I guess it depends on the crowd but I know a few people who like WP, myself included, and I haven't had anyone saying they hate it. Give WP another year and then see what happens.

On to meego again, why will that make Nokia a large smartphone seller again? The sales of high end smartphones (priced to rival iPhones, WP devices and Android phones like the GSII) were low and always have been. Most Nokia smartphones have always been semi dumbphones in the £100-200 price range, something that with the rise of android was going to take a sharp nose dive. Unless meego was sold on those semi dumbphones it wouldn't have made much difference.

Tute · 22 Jul 2011 at 00:48

Because it was a good OS, with decent backing. A bit of good marketing and I think it could have been a success, but sadly it's well missed the boat now (as WM7 is finding out as it struggles for marketshare).

Jonny ///M · 22 Jul 2011 at 00:53

JBod said:
This is from personal experience, we get loads phones and tablets in at work to develop on (we've had the HP Touchpad in for weeks, the Samsung 10.1 for a quite a while, we first got the Blackberry Playbook just before Christmas - plus several I am still under NDA for). When the first WP7 device turned up we all gathered round and had a go (very much a geeky office). There is a good mix of Android/iPhone lovers yet not one single person actually liked WP7.. this is from a subset of a good 30 people... most of whom are Windows developers in .NET.

Fast forward to now, still no one has one. Most people now have a Desire/DesireHD/DesireZ/SGS/iPhone4 (Desire and iPhone4 being the most popular).

That's probably because you are,as you said, more geeky. I use WP7 and I like it as it's kept pretty simple which is all I want. My cousin is a geek and loves his android phone but I just don't want to sit and **** around making it totally custom.

It can call people
I can text people
I can browse the net
I can take simple pics of stuff and upload it quickly
It combines my facebook and live contacts nicely into one contact on the phone.

Win? I'm not fussed about menu layouts, background images, ringtones or whatnot.

stoke1863 · 22 Jul 2011 at 00:55

Jonny ///M said:
That's probably because you are,as you said, more geeky. I use WP7 and I like it as it's kept pretty simple which is all I want. My cousin is a geek and loves his android phone but I just don't want to sit and **** around making it totally custom.

It can call people
I can text people
I can browse the net
I can take simple pics of stuff and upload it quickly
It combines my facebook and live contacts nicely into one contact on the phone.

Win? I'm not fussed about menu layouts, background images, ringtones or whatnot.

Thats the beaty of android.. You can muck about as much as you want,, or you can leave it how it is out of the box and it still works perfectly

Amp34 · 22 Jul 2011 at 02:23

Tute said:
Because it was a good OS, with decent backing. A bit of good marketing and I think it could have been a success, but sadly it's well missed the boat now (as WM7 is finding out as it struggles for marketshare).

Meego was a good OS? In which case its release at the moment will have the same issue WP7 is apparently having. An OS that has even more backing? Still not sure how using an OS with less backing (Meego) will help Nokia if the apparent issues they are having is true, just smacks of a little hate/love going on.

Perhaps I completely missed your point though.

Oh and as for the Bing thing, just read in MSs earning that it had increased marketshare and made a 25 profit increase iirc...

Amp34 · 22 Jul 2011 at 02:24

stoke1863 said:
Thats the beaty of android.. You can muck about as much as you want,, or you can leave it how it is out of the box and it still works perfectly

Yet 90% of people don't cars about that, otherwise BB and Apple wouldn't have the marketshares they currently have.

Magic_x_uk · 22 Jul 2011 at 08:04

Wow, I certainly hope Nokia doesn't go.

Had Nokia's most of my my mobile phone life (some 17 years)
apart from the last 18 months with a Blackberry, pretty much always had them.

They may have fallen behind now, but I am pretty sure we would not be where we are now without Nokia in the market place. I think 99% of long term mobile users would have had a Nokia at some point.

I am sure there is still a huge market place for people who just want a Mobile phone for what it is, An instrument to have with you in case of emergency, something to just receive and make calls. With also basic text function.

To me, Nokia is to mobile phones, what Hoover is to Vacuum cleaners.

PhillyDee · 22 Jul 2011 at 08:42

Magic_x_uk said:
To me, Nokia is to mobile phones, what Hoover is to Vacuum cleaners.

Pretty much! I have never had a Nokia break, unless its through abuse. Even then, they could handle it very well.

My samsung, was crap. Dodgy software, and awful hardware. Ericson, was a good phone, but didn;t have the finesse of Nokia. Only thing that was better than my old 5800 was the HTC HD7 WP7 phone I have. The OS is so easy to use, there are some major features missing, all of which will be in the Mango update. Once this update hits, it will be absolutly fantastic. As opposed to just very good.

WP7 people do not seem to like because it deviates from the norms. Much like Vista was. The OS is faultless for me. Never hung up on me yet.

Myshra · 22 Jul 2011 at 08:51

Amp34 said:
Yet 90% of people don't cars about that, otherwise BB and Apple wouldn't have the marketshares they currently have.

RIM lost 4.2% marketshare from Feb to May this year, I'm not sure they are that much stronger currently

They took a spanking and they knew it was coming so at least they were prepared. To the OP - they will stock the new WP7 handsets but the N950 isn't going to get a network release from anyone from what the grapevine tells me at fruit HQ despite a lot of interest. It's their call in the end.

As to the argument over WP7 - in all honesty it doesn't sell well because it's not got the premium attached to it like an iPhone, it doesn't have the market force push of Android and the handset choice sucks. It hasn't sold well and everyone knows it, it's no secret. Is it good enough as an OS doesn't come into it when selling stuff - Symbian 40 which many of you would probably mock, sells better

cu3ed · 22 Jul 2011 at 09:45

How can they not be shipping the N9 everywhere? as a piece of hardware I thought it looked really smart and a bit different.

Tunney · 22 Jul 2011 at 10:08

Amp34 said:
On to the topic at hand Nokia have been hemoreging sales and cash for a long time (weren't they making a loss a couple of years ago?)

This is the most popular myth about Nokia. Up until this year, Nokia's handset division has always been profitable and its smartphone sales have always been growing.

On to meego again, why will that make Nokia a large smartphone seller again? The sales of high end smartphones (priced to rival iPhones, WP devices and Android phones like the GSII) were low and always have been. Most Nokia smartphones have always been semi dumbphones in the £100-200 price range, something that with the rise of android was going to take a sharp nose dive. Unless meego was sold on those semi dumbphones it wouldn't have made much difference.

Before the iPhone came out, Nokia sold plenty of high-end smartphones. In fact, the N95 comfortably outsold the first iPhone.

I'm 50/50 about whether MeeGo could have been a success though. The problem isn't the amount of developers the platform could attract but rather the type. Nokia's weak presence in the US has always made Silicon Valley companies reluctant to develop for its phones. Without official clients for popular services, MeeGo probably would have struggled. MeeGo is a great platform to develop for though.

The other Nokia problem was services but that problem could have been solved without partnering with Microsoft. If your mobile OS needs a music/video/book/app store, why not get into bed with Amazon instead?

3dcandy · 22 Jul 2011 at 10:17

I'm glad this is a pretty good debate, not a bashing exercise...
I still imagine that carriers will look at Nokia WP7 phones, but as I've been looking at phones carefully recently the vibe from people in shops is that they are almost finished and more worryingly gonna drop even further before WP7 comes out. When I said that shops weren't planning to stock Nokia it was in the immediate and short term, and that folks will cause so much pain for Nokia it's untrue. Yes Nokia's handsets have grown for as long as anyone can remember, but they are having a complete mare of a time now with some people saying they might possibly lose 90% of their sales before they manage a WP7 phone. Some are even saying they might not make it till they get the wp7 phones out if the sales are that bad. Nokia's problem has been for years that they move too slowly, and going wp7 hasn't changed that much. 9 months to get a new phone out is a joke in this day and age when other brands manage it in 6. Until that changes I can't see how Nokia will climb up again, and with carriers dropping support, something that has traditionally been strong for Nokia, they are really going to struggle

Christo · 22 Jul 2011 at 10:19

JBod said:
This is from personal experience, we get loads phones and tablets in at work to develop on (we've had the HP Touchpad in for weeks, the Samsung 10.1 for a quite a while, we first got the Blackberry Playbook just before Christmas - plus several I am still under NDA for). When the first WP7 device turned up we all gathered round and had a go (very much a geeky office). There is a good mix of Android/iPhone lovers yet not one single person actually liked WP7.. this is from a subset of a good 30 people... most of whom are Windows developers in .NET.

Fast forward to now, still no one has one. Most people now have a Desire/DesireHD/DesireZ/SGS/iPhone4 (Desire and iPhone4 being the most popular).

Personally I really like WP7, simple, slick and fast (an important factor for me). It needs some maturity but I think it might do quite well. Then again I like WebOS so I may be unusual..
However Id take the N9 over SeaRay, it looks FANTASTIC (even if there is no camera button

).