Nokia...going, going...not quite gone!

englishpremier · 25 Jul 2011 at 17:22

Still the worlds largest mobile phone supplier.

Though they were overtaken by apple on smartphone only sales this June.

For fiscal Q2 2011 ending in June 2011, Nokia reported a net loss of 492 million EUR, despite a 430 million EUR payment from Apple. Nokia cited decline in its mobile phone business as the primary cause of the loss. EEK!

3dcandy · 25 Jul 2011 at 17:29

englishpremier said:
Still the worlds largest mobile phone supplier.

Though they were overtaken by apple on smartphone only sales this June.

For fiscal Q2 2011 ending in June 2011, Nokia reported a net loss of 492 million EUR, despite a 430 million EUR payment from Apple. Nokia cited decline in its mobile phone business as the primary cause of the loss. EEK!

Not for much longer...Samsung closing fast!

3dcandy · 25 Jul 2011 at 17:32

Also sales aren't everything when you can't get a decent margin...and Nokia are really hurting there. As I said way back in this thread, Nokias losses are huge, and look like they are going to get bigger before they recover. It really, really is looking back for Nokia as we know it...

flibbage0 · 25 Jul 2011 at 19:36

Its strange how Nokia were making a lot of ugly phones when they were popular and in the past year they've been making some really good looking, solid phones.

3dcandy · 26 Jul 2011 at 03:34

same bloke, same website new take on the Nokia slide to oblivion...

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2011/7/25/microsoft-nokia-best-case-scenario-825-market-share-in-2013.aspx?pageid=0

Amp34 · 26 Jul 2011 at 11:25

Load of bull again IMO. First off a major point in his projection is an increase in sales in Q4 2010, which a large portion if the rest of the article is based on. What if that is an anomoly? He even says himself its a massive reverse... He also goes on to say Nokia won't sell the same number of Symbian phones, it was my understanding that they were still going to sell low end symbian phones for several years, he even shows in his prices that a large majority of Nokia smartphone sales are low end phones.

He then goes on to say that due to the collapse in Symbian phone sales in the last quarter they cannot possibly sell the analysts number of windows phones, without explaining why a reduction in Symbian sales has anything to do with winPho sales... Personally I think th sales numbers for windows phone are reasonable (in the Nokia sales sense) however I don't think they will canibalise Symbian sales anywhere near as much as he is making out.

Also what was that paragraph about all the other manufacturers turning their back on windows phones? Any evidence for this as last I heard there are already leaks of both Samsung and HTC phones...

Myshra · 26 Jul 2011 at 11:35

Samsung and HTC are longterm supporters of a diverse OS build so this wouldn't surprise me. Networks do not like dominant OSes as it causes marketing/image problems and Samsung in particular puts on a diverse front and have one time or another, put out phones with Android, Bada(sold more than WP7 in Q1), Windows, Symbian, Touchwiz generation and their other generic SamsungOS builds.

RIM just fired 2000 people today (11% of workforce)

Cheer up RIM, you do well in the UK.

Yas786 · 26 Jul 2011 at 12:10

Myshra said:
RIM just fired 2000 people today (11% of workforce) Cheer up RIM, you do well in the UK.

Yep it was on the cards for some time

...cost effectiveness is what they are claiming...never a good thing when people lose their jobs.

Amp34 · 26 Jul 2011 at 15:06

Myshra said:
Samsung and HTC are longterm supporters of a diverse OS build so this wouldn't surprise me. Networks do not like dominant OSes as it causes marketing/image problems and Samsung in particular puts on a diverse front and have one time or another, put out phones with Android, Bada(sold more than WP7 in Q1), Windows, Symbian, Touchwiz generation and their other generic SamsungOS builds.

RIM just fired 2000 people today (11% of workforce) Cheer up RIM, you do well in the UK.

Them turning their backs on windows phone? If that were the case they would stop designing new ones. Not sure what you mean.

Spawn said:
Yep it was on the cards for some time...cost effectiveness is what they are claiming...never a good thing when people lose their jobs.

For the people being made redundant but for the company and consumer it often means better things. Less drag and more profits for the company, which in turn lead to more research and better technology. As long as they don't go overboard with job cuts...

Myshra · 26 Jul 2011 at 15:39

I guess I worded my post poorly sorry. They are both highly unlikely to stop other OS handset development as it currently stands in my opinion.

Tunney · 26 Jul 2011 at 17:12

Interesting comment from the author of the post that started this thread:

tomiahonen said:
oh, for those who are not clear about it, haha. I am VERY open: am on a mission to get Nokia CEO Stephen Elop fired for incompetence

englishpremier · 26 Jul 2011 at 19:12

All these articles look at the market share of "new" smartphone. Not the actual market share.

For example there could be close to 1bn (made up figure) Nokia smartphone users at the moment. even is nokia sell none and Android and Apple shift 100m units a year, that would still take close to 10 years before they been Nokia's market share.

I know that's not really what we're discussing, but it's worth baring in mind.

feedtheram · 26 Jul 2011 at 22:08

3dcandy said:
As an aside, I went into a 3 shop recently, to be told they're not planning on stocking Nokia in the future. Thought to myself that's interesting, only to be told roughly the same in the other major shops too. All shops agreed that Nokia was dead, apart from cheap, crap handsets, that are sold to "older" generations

Not getting involved in the main discussion but I wouldn't take any advise about mobile phones off anyone who works in a mobile phone shop. In fact i wouldn't take any advise about anything from anyone who works in a mobile phone shop.

There are currently only a couple of known nokia smartphones about to be released...they wont appear on the shops systems yet as they havent even been announced. I'm sure once they are all these shops will stock the phones.

3dcandy · 26 Jul 2011 at 22:16

feedtheram said:
Not getting involved in the main discussion but I wouldn't take any advise about mobile phones off anyone who works in a mobile phone shop. In fact i wouldn't take any advise about anything from anyone who works in a mobile phone shop.

There are currently only a couple of known nokia smartphones about to be released...they wont appear on the shops systems yet as they havent even been announced. I'm sure once they are all these shops will stock the phones.

My point is that Nokia have always enjoyed almost 100% carrier support. It is unheard of in this country (and many others as well) for carriers to publicly be saying they won't be stocking Nokia and that is what I'm hearing from anyone who I can listen to. Not just mobile phone sellers, but people in a position to buy multiple contracts being told explicitly NOT to go with Nokia...can you remember this happening before?

englishpremier · 27 Jul 2011 at 08:33

There's no reason for carriers not to stock it really. What do they care which brand the customer buys, as long as they buy.

3dcandy · 27 Jul 2011 at 08:43

perhaps because the price keeps going down and the brand is really tainted at the moment...customers perception is that Symbian is rubbish and they are waiting for WP7

englishpremier · 27 Jul 2011 at 08:50

People in the street don't even know what Symbian is.

At the moment, every carrier still stocks a nokia phone

3dcandy · 27 Jul 2011 at 08:56

not just me saying it...of course every carrier stocks a nokia phone at the moment, they have hundreds. in future, however I doubt they will ever go back to having the same presence. And how stupid to say people don't know what symbian is, even people who don't know anything realise that nokia aren't android or iphone or whatever. They might not actually know it's called symbian, but they know it's not the same as everyone else...

jaybee · 27 Jul 2011 at 09:03

It will be an end of an era seeing Nokia sink. They were soooo big. They pretty much were a monopoly with market share in mobile handsets when mobile phones took off. I have owned a couple of Nokia phones but in recent years have deliberately avoided them. They've just fallen too far behind I feel.

Myshra · 27 Jul 2011 at 10:05

englishpremier said:
There's no reason for carriers not to stock it really. What do they care which brand the customer buys, as long as they buy.

A whole lot, honestly. Shipping devices with low enjoyment levels, poor signal reception, a high call failure rate or a lack of expected features makes people blame the network rather than the phone manufacturer and as such they won't renew their contracts which is pretty bad for business.

I've seen lots of phones rejected at Orange (and not just for the fact we couldn't "Orangeify" them enough

) for these and more reasons. Some phones are just not good and shouldn't be sold. I must admit I had a smugface on when a rival of ours shipped a phone we rejected and then had a return rate of >15%.