Is this shop lifting?

Raymond Lin · 27 Jul 2011 at 01:08

Energize said:
As already said it's not theft unless there is dishonesty, an intention to permanently deprive. Absurd situation.

an hypothetical situation.

If say....you go to a restaurant and it has a self check in cloak room.

You go hang up your coat for dinner. Then at the end of the night you go back and get it. During the dim lit lighting you see another coat that you prefer over yours and you take it.

You put it on and got outside....when you got home you realise it is your own coat. Academically speaking, you were stealing, even if it is your own coat as the notion of theft is all down to dishonesty.

Nitefly · 27 Jul 2011 at 01:11

Energize said:
As already said it's not theft unless there is dishonesty, an intention to permanently deprive. Absurd situation.

It's not absurd at all!

Deadbeat · 27 Jul 2011 at 01:12

I haven't read any of this thread past post #2

Brian8bit said:
It's not yours until you pay for it.

That's pretty much end of thread, as far as I can see it. Strange, because I'm an argumentative little **** and I disagree with the vast majority of your opinions, Brian, but... well, you couldn't be more right here.

Hxc · 27 Jul 2011 at 01:15

It amuses me how the subdiscussion about banana packaging has cropped up.

I however absolutely hate people who do this for no real reason, just really really dislike it. Wait, and eat when you're out of the bloody store.

Energize · 27 Jul 2011 at 01:18

Nitefly said:
It's not absurd at all!

The security guard has just lost the supermarket thousands of pounds in revenue for a single banana which she may well have paid for, madness.

Raymond Lin said:
You put it on and got outside....when you got home you realise it is your own coat. Academically speaking, you were stealing, even if it is your own coat as the notion of theft is all down to dishonesty.

The theft act states that the property must belong to another.

Von Smallhausen · 27 Jul 2011 at 01:19

On the assumption that she intended to pay for the banana then she has not committed theft.

A person commits theft if they dishonestly appropriate property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it.

I have often taken my little un shopping and will give him the odd bag of crisps while he is plonked in the trolley that I have bought as a multiple pack. I volunteer this info at the checkout and nobody has batted an eyelid over it.

Same with a banana. If it is eaten in the supermarket and the intention is to pay for it and no attempt has been made to leave the supermarket then how do you prove dishonesty ?

Nitefly · 27 Jul 2011 at 01:20

Energize said:
The security guard has just lost the supermarket thousands of pounds in revenue for a single banana which she may well have paid for, madness.

Sorry, I thought you were implying the law was absurd, I'm not sure you are now.

Energize · 27 Jul 2011 at 01:20

No, I was referring to the whole situation at the supermarket.

PermaBanned · 27 Jul 2011 at 01:26

To those of you saying 'it's not yours until you pay for it' - does that mean it's fine and dandy to go round taking stuff from other people's trolleys? I mean, nobody's paid for it...

Brian8bit · 27 Jul 2011 at 01:28

PermaBanned said:
To those of you saying 'it's not yours until you pay for it' - does that mean it's fine and dandy to go round taking stuff from other people's trolleys? I mean, nobody's paid for it...

Yes. Only when they're not looking. Also put things in peoples trolleys when they're not looking so they think they're going crazy when they pull it out of the trolley at the till.

Mark3h · 27 Jul 2011 at 01:28

As von said, things like crisps from a multipack, as long as the multipack goes through the till, nobody will mind if you let your youngster tuck into a packet.
I don't doubt the woman did intend to pay for it, but unless the banana came from a bunch that had been sealed and labelled, it needed to be weighed.

Seeing as there was no product left to be weighed, intentionally or not the woman committed theft. Guard wasn't much better, tug of war with a trolley when a child is sitting in it? Thats just plain idiotic.

Von Smallhausen · 27 Jul 2011 at 01:32

How is it a theft though ?

If I was in that situation I would ask them to weigh two bananas and I would pay for them, more than covering the weight and cost.

Does the weight of the banana mean a theft has occurred when a cost can obtained with a common sense approach.

DJ_Martin · 27 Jul 2011 at 01:35

I remember when I was a lot younger and I was shopping with my mum, I started to feel faint so she let me have a chocolate bar and we got that wrapper scanned. A banana is probably one of the best things you could eat in that same situation, could have been that.

Mark3h · 27 Jul 2011 at 01:40

While you are right in the common sense approach von, many people, including this woman it seems don't think ahead like that.
But it all goes down to nobody knowing what the exact price of the banana was since its not around to weigh.
For the sake of a few pence I don't get why the guard got so worked up, its not like she was rolling out the door with a TV or anything.

Energize · 27 Jul 2011 at 01:46

Von Smallhausen said:
How is it a theft though ?

If I was in that situation I would ask them to weigh two bananas and I would pay for them, more than covering the weight and cost.

Does the weight of the banana mean a theft has occurred when a cost can obtained with a common sense approach.

Right, even if it actually is the case that it's paid by weight you can just pay a nominal amount.

Regardless of the technicalities people are going on about, in reality you take something off the shelf take it to the till and pay for it, the supermarket is set up for this, it is not a business based on bargaining for the price, the supermarket is not going to refuse to sell it and you can assume with 99.9r confidence that the banana did not weigh 10kg, ergo it's not immoral to eat stuff before you pay for it.

I think people saying it's wrong to eat in the supermarket (hygiene really?) seems to be more of a case of "stop liking what I don't like" rather than anything of actual substance.

Robbo · 27 Jul 2011 at 01:56

I hate people that do things like this, it's cringeworthy and retarded.

steve-h · 27 Jul 2011 at 01:57

DJmartin said:
I remember when I was a lot younger and I was shopping with my mum, I started to feel faint so she let me have a chocolate bar and we got that wrapper scanned. A banana is probably one of the best things you could eat in that same situation, could have been that.

One is charged on weight though... they're totally different items.

Mark3h said:
For the sake of a few pence I don't get why the guard got so worked up, its not like she was rolling out the door with a TV or anything.

Well, did he? We only have to go on what she said. With CCTV everywhere I'm sure he handled it with care, but who knows.

Robbo said:
I hate people that do things like this, it's cringeworthy and retarded.

lol

PermaBanned · 27 Jul 2011 at 02:00

steve-h said:
Well, did he? We only have to go on what she said. With CCTV everywhere I'm sure he handled it with care, but who knows.

Well what do we know about him? Character reference? Well, he's a security guard - so he probably failed the entrance exam for the police

Pighardia · 27 Jul 2011 at 02:03

steve-h said:
Well, did he? We only have to go on what she said. With CCTV everywhere I'm sure he handled it with care, but who knows.

That occured to me actually, when reading this from the link:

David Nieberg, from Tesco, said: “We strongly refute any suggestion that our security guard acted aggressively or inappropriately in any way.”

Surely they wouldn't play it like that if there was any chance that he did much wrong?

mjt · 27 Jul 2011 at 02:09

Was the banana sold by weight or by piece?
If it was by weight then unless she'd weighed it first she's in the wrong.

If I'm really thirsty I'll open and drink a bottle of water whilst I'm shopping and give them the opened bottle at the tills. I've never had a problem.