Tests claim few benefit claimants 'unfit to work'

[Dolph]

The issue is a great many people don't want to understand how disability benefit should link into the equality act, and prior to that, the disability discrimination act. These acts put a responsibility on employers to make reasonable adjustments for employees with disabilities to enable them to work. If their disability can reasonably be accommodated, then they should work.

Previously, there was no real checking on fitness to work, a situation which has lead to us having the second highest proportion of disability claimants in the G7, and above average claimant levels. We also have the highest proportion of young claimants in the G7. (OECD Source)

This is now changing with ATOS assessments, capability to work is being independently evaluated (because it is important to remember that GPs and consultants can't give an independent assessment of their patients due to conflict of interest). This is going to be unpleasant for some who have decided themselves they are incapable of work, but in fact are not.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

Maybe the real problem is minimum wage jobs paying you barely enough to simply survive. It's not like most job seekers people are living the life of Riley.

The long term jobless will most likely be in a council house that is paid for, has sky TV, has central heating, has a fridge/freezer, has fire/health/police cover and their children get free schooling.
Every single person I know on job seekers (or on incapacity) gets drunk (we are not talking a cheeky big bottle of Frosty, we are talking a full blown night out) and smokes like a chimney. Hmmmm not that hard up are they .

 

[Mr Jack]

A good piece from Mark Steel.

 

[Mr Jack]

I'd still much prefer a citizens income system however.

I'd like flying pigs to solve our transport problems by carrying passengers swiftly to their destinations for free. But perhaps we should stick to things that actually stand some chance of working in the real world, hey?

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

The place in Burton Upon Trent that smells most like an ashtray are the benches directly outside the job centre.

 

[Danthus]

The long term jobless will most likely be in a council house that is paid for, has sky TV, has central heating, has a fridge/freezer, has fire/health/police cover and their children get free schooling.
Every single person I know on job seekers (or on incapacity) gets drunk (we are not talking a cheeky big bottle of Frosty, we are talking a full blown night out) and smokes like a chimney. Hmmmm not that hard up are they .

I still can not understand why this has never been clamped down on, nobody in receipt of benefits should be able to use that money for luxuries such as Sky, cigarettes and alcohol.

 

[RaohNS]

/Pulls out can of worms... /opens can of worms with:

I'd argue 50% of Jobseekers have no intention of working.

The figures that myself and previous colleagues came up with were:

50% Did not want to work under any circumstance
33% Were quite comfortably capable of working and gaining work and did so
17% Perhaps thought they wanted to work, but were worried about what happened when they did get employment as to whether they would be able to afford working

Of the 50% Can't Work, Won't Work some had even convinced their JobCentre Advsiors to be co-conspirators in their game, getting regular interest free loans through the JobCentre of up to £400, paid back at a rate of £5 per week.

I used to do Initial Assessments on the "Long Term Unemployed" as they were termed, and i always used a BR (benefits received) or (colleagues) IR (in receipt-of) and we used to total up how much benefits people claimed based on JSA, IS, CTC, HB, CTB etc and some of the figures were in my opinion astronomical. One lad who claimed single person and his girlfriend single person (living at the same address) he alone managed to claim more than £25k! Thats like having a job that pays more than £30k!

Some hardened unemployed take out Loans for false reasons, i reported one such individual to his adviser to be told: "You do know he has problems and finds it difficult to get a job"... I was flabberghasted... needless to say that i issued a formal complaint about that advisers attitude. The result: no further action taken against X in relation to SB.

Absolutely disgusting.

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In terms of those who are "on the sick"... it unfortunately depends who you speak to. If you speak to a loved on, they are definately incapable of working, and if they do start working this could happen or that could happen and if this or that happens we will be suing....

If you speak to others in the general sense its a case of "Oh glass back" ... "Well they should get working they don't have this disability when they are going out carrying 8 bags of shopping etc".

I know a couple of people who could perhaps work (one quite certainly) and the other who i honestly would be worried if they went to work (she has multiple medical problems, ranging from migraine to nervous system problems, anxiety attacks etc (which can be serious).

However the latter does work for a few hours a week voluntary in a Charity shop for the Disabled. She gets lots of support and probably misses a day a week through problems.

 

[slambo69]

Cant walk, talk, barely move any muscles yet one of the greatest most respected men alive today. I wonder if he claims disability benefits?

 

[callmeBadger]

My Dad has a condition where his spine is crumbling, any kind of moving is extremely painful, he's drugged up to the eyeballs just to cope with the pain and won't be long before he loses control of the lower half of his body, yet the benefits office claim he's fit for ANY work, WITHOUT any form of medical assessment, NO contact with his GP and to top it all off they refuse to goto an appeal tribunal till March next year!

But at least the stat's look good on paper, while in the mean time people are forced to look for non-exsistant work they simply can't do and then get blamed for being a benefit fraud...

Similar to my brother, two medical doctors had supplied letters saying unfit for work with his crumbeling back. driving license has been revoked as medically unfit for work.

Had the interview, was told failure to attend automatically assumes your fit and unable to attend as working. Attending interview gives you 8 points. sitting in chair for half hour gives 8 points, a score of 15 or more means your fit. seems just turning up for the interview means your fit, not turning up means your fit.

On presenting his medical record and the two doctors notes, one from the QMC proffessor bloke and the other independant which was paid for by his mortgage company insurers (who you would have thought would have a good incentive to deam able to work), the assessor said they were not medically trained and couldn't read the records. At end of the process my brother couldn't get out of chair and had an ambulance called to take him out and spent 3 days in hospital, the journey drive there, walking, bending and sitting for so long "may have aggrevated" the condition and spent 3 days in hospital.

But on the good side he's fit for work.

 

[Neil79]

^ A disgrace but it doesn't surprise me, it's all for the stats!. You only have to look at how difficult it is for a child to get specialist help and specialist schools!. Statements e.t.c

If you're an immigrant - Free Hand Outs
If you have kids, love drinking beer and daddy has run off - Free Hand Outs
Disabled - 80% of you are screwed!

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

^
Disabled - 80% of you are screwed!

I genuinely feel for those who are actually disabled, as most people 'claim' stuff that they do not have but is hard to disprove, such as depression, anxiety etc. Similar to when someone actually has whiplash I don't believe them.
It is quite a sad situation really that it was come to this .

 

[Spook187]

My mrs is on long term sick with a skull base tumor on a feeding machine 14 hours a day with high doses of drugs which makes her very tired and they said she was fit to go back to work they dropped her money first then told her she must apply for jobs she has a job,she won her case and got all the money this greedy government took off her..

 

[1LANCS]

I'd love to see the Government have the balls to force people on "JobSeekers" (what a laugh in my area!) to get up 5 days a week at 8 in the morning to EARN their benefits. Turn up or don't get money. Let's see how many find another job then eh?
Broken society caused by the Party of the working man actually being the Party of the non working man.

If there is enough work to make long term unemployed people work 5 days a week 8 hours a day then pay them minimum wage and give them a job.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

If there is enough work to make long term unemployed people work 5 days a week 8 hours a day then pay them minimum wage and give them a job.

I have just graduated and have no idea of this 'bad job market' that people were on about. I had various interview offers for good jobs and even a decent job offer (which was turned down as I start postgrad on Monday).
Those who WANT work (the passion and desire to work) will get work. In a 'bad job market' you just have to put more effort in.

To the posters above, JSA is £53 a week for under 24s, which is circa a day of pay for a poorly paid job. Therefore one day a week they should be litterpicking or filling potholes.
£££ for no work needs to be made unacceptable.

 

[Dave M]

Cant walk, talk, barely move any muscles yet one of the greatest most respected men alive today. I wonder if he claims disability benefits?

Most of us are not geniuses and to some extent perform physical jobs, even admin assistants need to read the screen, type, file paper - and there's not enough seniority in the role to pay helpers to do that for you.

Whether or not a disabled person is likely to get the seniority required outside of academia is a relevant question though, if you can't get a junior role how can you get a senior role?

 

[1LANCS]

I agree but people cant just make blanket statements of "omg make them work for their benefits" just because they dont like some of their taxes going to people on benefits. If there is work to justify making people work then give them the job dont force them to work for less than minimum wage.

 

[arknor]

I genuinely feel for those who are actually disabled, as most people 'claim' stuff that they do not have but is hard to disprove, such as depression, anxiety etc. Similar to when someone actually has whiplash I don't believe them.
It is quite a sad situation really that it was come to this .

the problem is a lot of people with mental health problems that are proven are beeing forced onto job seekers allowance.

go look at some of the autistic spectrum forums people who shouldnt be on JSA are beeing put on it because a bunch of people who arent qualified and dont understand mental illness are deeming people fit for work.

theres a reason specialists are needed to diagnose autism and other related illnesses, these same specialists should be the ones who decide wether or not they are capable of working

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

I agree but people cant just make blanket statements of "omg make them work for their benefits" just because they dont like some of their taxes going to people on benefits. If there is work to justify making people work then give them the job dont force them to work for less than minimum wage.

Forcing people to work for under minimum wage would make them want to find proper work though.

Benefits is not what bothers me, what bothers me is most people work hard for a living whilst others sit on the sofa all day watching Sky HD with a can of Stella in one hand and a Benson & Hedges in the other.
Benefits (as in not on incapacity) needs to support work, not be seen as an easy alternative.

 

[Wolfe777]

If we had actually protected Britain from immense and not needed immigration we might actually have enough money to treat our own needy people.

When we're inheriting a massive amount of problems from the third world it's hardly surprising that there's no money for the genuinely sick.

When a Nigerian lady can come here to have quintuplets just because she felt like it costing the taxpayer £400,000, how can we be expected to have enough money to go around?

When we pay millions to hold non British citizens in prisons, when we pay millions to protect terrorists and to allow their 'human rights' to illegally stay in our country at our expense, it's hardly surprising that we're in this state.

Of course my mini rant will be offensive to some and that's not my intent - but it is my intent to be honest and that's my honest appraisal as to why our welfare state is in the sorry state it is.

I'm not disputing the lion's share of the welfare state are indigenous British, many of whom are abusing the system to sickening levels, but the massive influx of needy people from other countries is not helping to say the least.

Yes, many immigrants shame lazy British people with their wonderful work ethic and pay huge levels of tax, I'm not disputing that, but it's an undeniable fact that a large proportion of immigrants go onto benefits and stay there, what's more they are all aware of how claiming a disability upon arrival in the country gives them a much better chance of claiming asylum.

Bet your last £ too that 'cultural sensitivities' will mean that they will likely be the last ones to be pressured to look for work.

To hear some of circumstances of ill mothers being forced to look for work in this topic is genuinely upsetting, unfortunately it's only going to get worse as our population gets more and more bloated, it's yet another legacy of the last government that we'll be paying for for generations.


.

 

[Morbius]

Benefits is not what bothers me, what bothers me is most people work hard for a living whilst others sit on the sofa all day watching Sky HD with a can of Stella in one hand and a Benson & Hedges in the other.
Benefits (as in not on incapacity) needs to support work, not be seen as an easy alternative.

Maybe some sort of voucher scheme would be better where they could exchange vouchers for essential items.