Tests claim few benefit claimants 'unfit to work'

cymatty said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14280849

I knew that some people were abusing the system but this is shocking and shows that it is a worthwhile exercise.

The problem is who are going to employ these people when there are over 2 million out of work?
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I'm not sure about that? You do know that 40% of those that appeal win their case- but unless i'm mistken the quoted figures do not mention that.
I stand corrected, it did mention the figure as 39% but this in itself must speak volumes about the fairness of the test.
 
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AcidHell2 said:
wtf you can't mean that. Plenty of honest working people are stuck in such jobs and do it as they have to, why should these people be any different. You do any job you can get hold of, how ever much you hate it.

To many people think they're worth more than they are.
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arknor said:
i dont know exactly what he means but for example people with autism are forced to apply for bar jobs , tesco jobs etc its a massive waste of time they have no chance of ever getting employed in a job that needs social skills.
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AcidHell2 said:
I don't think that's what he means at all and I said that's a problem in my first post.
I think he means exactly that people shouldn't be forced into dead end boring jobs. Of course they should.
Should cut benefits back to real world levels and see how many want to stay on it. Make people share cheap houses/flats and barely enough to live on, let alone any luxuries. Just like many people who have jobs, have to do. then see how many claimants there are and how few wouldn't such and progress themselves. But that's more general rather than people with problems.
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I am not worried about those who genuinely can work and are simply too lazy too or look for excuses to claim benefit. My concerns lie with those who may not be able to articulate what they want and are likely to be subject to employer and other employee prejudices.

There are plenty of job seekers that don’t need any special support to do the job required of them so where is the incentive for the employer to make the effort here?

We can’t look to the public sector as the role model for employing them either since it isn’t recruiting and certainly not in the numbers it needs to be.

If someone met stephen hawking without knowing him or what he had done, would they presume he was one of the greatest minds of our time or would their prejudices not want to know, not really listen and mentally discard him to the bottom of the pile? How many employers do you think will give people the opportunity to develop and listen to what their expectations are?
 
AcidHell2 said:
Plenty of people in dead end boring jobs they hate, but they still do it and everyone should.
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this is a bigger issue than it may at first appear. do the people doing dead end boring jobs because they simply have to feed themselves and their family or do they do it because they have no motivation or spark to do something about it?

onto the op. the system is an absoloute nightmare, full of people who are not trained properly and don't care. it's a joke really. needs a major overhaul, not so much overhaul more like scrapping and get a new one. it's run by people who will not treat people as an individual but would rather push them elsewhere, do not understand the needs of the people they see and are more interested in the great pension they will get for doing a job that in reality means not really starting work at about 9:45am and winding down at about 3:30pm. until this changes and they stop putting individuals needs into little boxes and the right people are brought in, this will continue to fail.
 
cm1179 said:
this is a bigger issue than it may at first appear. do the people doing dead end boring jobs because they simply have to feed themselves and their family or do they do it because they have no motivation or spark to do something about it?

.
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They'll be people in both Categories, it wont be limited to just one. Had to do loads of rubbish jobs, before I found something I was sort of happy with.
 
39% passed on to jobseekers.

Point being, many take the money but never bother to even look for a job. It's these long-term "jobseekers" they want to sort out.

Just sounds like they passed that 39% from one department to the other tbh :rolleyes:
 
I work a job I hate to pay the mortgage and bills and have done for many a year.
Get on with it, make the best of it, and stop acting as though the world owes you a living.
Simple.

I'd love to see the Government have the balls to force people on "JobSeekers" (what a laugh in my area!) to get up 5 days a week at 8 in the morning to EARN their benefits. Turn up or don't get money. Let's see how many find another job then eh?
Broken society caused by the Party of the working man actually being the Party of the non working man.
 
I honestly think that would work.

Minimum wage for unskilled labour.. Digging holes, cleaning the streets, basic remedial tasks to improve the community etc. I bet there would be less of a queue of people turning up to claim then!

Miss 5 days in a month and get booted off benefits.
 
All this proves is what we already know and that's the new test is an utter farce and not fair to those mentally or physically ill.

Its been brought in to save money any way it can even if its to the detriment of ill people.
 
EVH said:
39% passed on to jobseekers.

Point being, many take the money but never bother to even look for a job. It's these long-term "jobseekers" they want to sort out.

Just sounds like they passed that 39% from one department to the other tbh :rolleyes:
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The 39% won their ESA case. if they were on jobseekers then it was only until the appeal.
 
EVH said:
Minimum wage for unskilled labour.. Digging holes, cleaning the streets, basic remedial tasks to improve the community etc. I bet there would be less of a queue of people turning up to claim then!
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"Sorted mate, cupple a weeks uv that and i've got meself a badback ain't i, get meself setup wiv a disability ticket innit."

;)
 
It's about time we did proper independent evaluations of claimants, for cost control, fairness and also to make it clear that the disabled who are dependent on benefits do not get victimised because of people abusing the system.

Whether the current test achieves that is somewhat of another issue, but it is clear that there is a world of difference between what people are capable of and what they think they are capable of or should have to do.

I'd still much prefer a citizens income system however.
 
Neil79 said:
It's people like you that'd be great in the benefits office!

She is under long term psycholigcal counciling AND a PFO which gives her a much her risk of a stroke. I didn't say migrains i said Paralitic migrains, in other words she could be at work and bam!, Can't see and can't move half her body. Could happen at any time...

Both doctors and heart specialist said " not safe to work ", the Government said " Yes she is ".

I'm not going to get into arguments with this though, it's pointless
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Yet why can she not work in a back office/home setting? There are plenty of part time jobs that have little to no stress and can be accomodating for her.

Obviously I don't know her specific case but considering you/she lost during the assessment and tribunal then there must be something she can do...
 
AcidHell2 said:
a what?
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A system where everyone receives a minimum income irrespective of their working situation or wealth, which serves to reduce the stigma associated with claiming.

My preferred approach to implement such a system is negative income tax.
 
Dolph said:
A system where everyone receives a minimum income irrespective of their working situation or wealth, which serves to reduce the stigma associated with claiming.

My preferred approach to implement such a system is negative income tax.
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Yeah, a negative income tax that can form what is almost a 'citizens payment'. Frustratingly, only the Green Party comes closest to my idealised form of this policy. IDS/Conservatives' welfare reforms are the next-best thing.
 
AcidHell2 said:
This thing?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income_guarantee

So everyone would get a minimum payment of the govermen, surly that's worse than we have now?
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More like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax

Which combines the payment with taxation to provide a minimum income, an income that always increases with working, and a tax free threshold all in one go.

Essentially, it means that no-one can 'sponge' off the government, because they will never receive more than their working neighbours.
 
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