Riots in Tottenham, London! (NO RACIST COMMENTS)

hurfdurf · 8 Aug 2011 at 08:26

Dolph said:
In that case, the intelligence/suspicion was wrong, processes bad, and the death was tragic. It wasn't like they went out to kill a man they knew was innocent, at least not for the officers on the ground.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it is always 20/20, the death of JCMD was tragic, and should have (and has) led to changes in the processes, but it was an operational error, at a time of both hightened security and pretty severe paranoia (happening only a day after a failed multiple suicide bombing attempt where one of the bombers came from the same flat/building JCMD had been seen leaving).

The met were held responsible, incidentally, your link acknowledges this.

I would hardly say they were held responsible. They got away with paying £100,000, only after fighting to cover up their wrong doing. No charges were ever made against the people who sought to cover up the wrong doing. They got a slap on the wrist for murdering an innocent man and trying to cover it up.

Cat_In_Pyjamas · 8 Aug 2011 at 08:27

hurfdurf said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes

Just like when they killed this chap eh

Except that in this case the person shot was found to be armed?

hurfdurf · 8 Aug 2011 at 08:28

Dolph said:
So that excuses this sort of behaviour? Absolute rubbish. paranoia and disagreement does not justify violence to try and force a change of view.

No, riots are caused by the scum rioting, no-one else. People are responsible for their own actions, there is no justification or exception to this that would apply in this situation.

At what point does something excuse this kind of behaviour. Would you be calling for calm and a peaceful protest in Syria and Lybia at the moment?

Are the rebels there scum?

scorza · 8 Aug 2011 at 08:28

Dolph said:
The met were held responsible, incidentally, your link acknowledges this.

This is the problem though - the Met were held responsible but what disciplinary action did any officers face? None, Sir Ian Blair resigned only when newly elected Mayor of London, Boris Johnson said that he had no confidence in him. Sir Ian Blair is now a Lord. Cressida Dick, the gold commander on the day, actually got promoted and is now in the running for the Commissioners job. The individual officers, I don't know their fate - officially at least they faced no disciplinary action.

Deadbeat · 8 Aug 2011 at 08:29

hurfdurf said:
At what point does something excuse this kind of behaviour. Would you be calling for calm and a peaceful protest in Syria and Lybia at the moment?

Are the rebels there scum?

In case you hadn't noticed, this is not Syria or Libya. The two situations cannot be rationally compared.

hurfdurf · 8 Aug 2011 at 08:29

Cat_In_Pyjamas said:
Except that in this case the person shot was found to be armed?

And Menezes originally had a bomb and was warned before he was shot rather than simply executed.

Then the truth came out.

hurfdurf · 8 Aug 2011 at 08:30

scorza said:
This is the problem though - the Met were held responsible but what disciplinary action did any officers face? None, Sir Ian Blair resigned only when newly elected Mayor of London, Boris Johnson said that he had no confidence in him. Sir Ian Blair is now a Lord. Cressida Dick, the gold commander on the day, actually got promoted and is now in the running for the Commissioners job. The individual officers, I don't know their fate - officially at least they faced no disciplinary action.

A++ post would read again.

godinman · 8 Aug 2011 at 08:31

hurfdurf said:
At what point does something excuse this kind of behaviour. Would you be calling for calm and a peaceful protest in Syria and Lybia at the moment?

Are the rebels there scum?

Don't those rebels have a valid reason to be angry? Beyond 'We're being held back by "the man"' (one assumes), "but wont do anything to help ourselves, instead we'll leech off the state and smash stuff up every now and then'.

G18241 · 8 Aug 2011 at 08:33

Bunch of absolute idiots.

Im all for a protest, but this is just a smidgin OTT. I reckon if police tried to sort things by more forceful means, ie rubber bullets / tear gas etc then its just going to make matters worse, yet what are they to do, just keep doing what they are doing and wait for them all to get bored, or run out of shops to loot?

Cosimo · 8 Aug 2011 at 08:33

explicit4u said:
Reports on twitter saying there's people surrounding Islington police station.

EDIT:

There appears to be some confusion over what happened in Islington last night.

Despite reports on Twitter that a police officer was dragged from his car and beaten — and that Islington police station was surrounded by dozens of angry youths — the Met have just told me they're not aware of anything other than the broken police car windscreen and the group causing a disturbance.

[Guardian]

More disinformation on twitter. There was nothing on the news earlier.

hurfdurf · 8 Aug 2011 at 08:34

godinman said:
Don't those rebels have a valid reason to be angry? Beyond 'We're being held back by "the man"' (one assumes), "but wont do anything to help ourselves, instead we'll leech off the state and smash stuff up every now and then'.

Please show your source that the people rioting leech off the state and do nothing to help themselves.

I was at the Bristol Tesco riots, I and many other people there are well paid and pay their fair share of taxes. Reading online however, the only people there according to some people (who were not there themselves) the people rioting were scum, criminals, squatters and work shy hippies.

scorza · 8 Aug 2011 at 08:37

Why didn't the police just kettle the rioters? Seemed to work for the student protests didn't it?

hurfdurf · 8 Aug 2011 at 08:37

You know something is up when even the daily mail are attacking the police.

Cosimo · 8 Aug 2011 at 08:39

hurfdurf said:
You know something is up when even the daily mail are attacking the police.

[/QUOTE]

Looks like they are just reporting the news. ;)

explicit4u · 8 Aug 2011 at 08:41

scorza said:
Why didn't the police just kettle the rioters? Seemed to work for the student protests didn't it?

The student protest was a localised march so kettling us was easy, this however was widespread rioting/looting so kettling would do nothing but keep the police away from the widespread crime.

godinman · 8 Aug 2011 at 08:43

hurfdurf said:
Please show your source that the people rioting leech off the state and do nothing to help themselves.

I was at the Bristol Tesco riots, I and many other people there are well paid and pay their fair share of taxes. Reading online however, the only people there according to some people (who were not there themselves) the people rioting were scum, criminals, squatters and work shy hippies.

Okay then, so what were your reasons for rioting there? (unless you just stood around and watched?) And, more importantly, why do you think these current bunch of scummers are rioting?

The work shy, scrounging lazy idiot reference was a guess, but I'll bet you 20p that I am correct. The reasoning behind this is that they are obviously scum of some form (they could have peacefully protested, at least in the first instance, but haven't before this, instead immediately launching into a massive violent riot), and, the whole reason this all blew up is due to some gun carrying scrote getting shot by the police.

Infact, while I hold to my original thoughts on them, they're not even rioting due to any of the problems I mentioned (getting held back by 'the man', etc), they're rioting because another of their scummy lot got himself shot by the police while carrying (and possibly using) a gun. They have no gripe with society, they are just idiot pond-life.

Danthus · 8 Aug 2011 at 08:46

I was going to ask the same, in what capacity did you attend the Bristol riots?

Why do you also want to join the Specials?

BunnyKillBot · 8 Aug 2011 at 08:48

godinman said:
The work shy, scrounging lazy idiot reference was a guess, but I'll bet you 20p that I am correct.

Wow, your horse is very high, and entirely reasonably priced. Happily i can rest assured you would never be given any position of responsibility or policy making with an attitude as fail as that.

Unless your a member of the conservative party of course.

godinman · 8 Aug 2011 at 08:50

BunnyKillBot said:
Wow, your horse is very high. Happily i can rest assured you would never be given any position of responsibility or policy making with an attitude as fail as that.

Unless your a member of the conservative party of course.

Yours is pretty high too, well done. So, you think these are just normal, upstanding members of the community, rioting over the death of someone carrying a gun in public, before the IPCC has even fully investigated it?

Cosimo · 8 Aug 2011 at 08:51

hurfdurf said:
I was at the Bristol Tesco riots, I and many other people there are well paid and pay their fair share of taxes. Reading online however, the only people there according to some people (who were not there themselves) the people rioting were scum, criminals, squatters and work shy hippies.

So what were you doing at the riots?