Riots in Tottenham, London! (NO RACIST COMMENTS)

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Robbie G said:
Time to create a public policing arm of the UK military, like the Italian Carabinieri.

These people are all taking advantage of the weak and under-resourced nature of our police force.
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God no. I hate the Carabinieri, they stop you having any fun.

Italy is a police state in my opinion, they are literally everywhere! :p
 
LOAM said:
Theres apparently large groups of people brought together by #riotcleanup and www.riotcleanup.co.uk who are gathering to clean up the damage done these last few nights. Obviously there’s no media coverage of this though as it detracts from the “main event”.
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There's been mention of it but the original problem needs to stop before they focus on the clean up tbh this'll just encourage the **** to head back to where the clean up has already started.
 
drunkenmaster said:
As for Cameron, wanted to see stronger statements, essentially a plea/command for "bystanders" to go the hell home, all these complete idiots just standing and watching, the police don't know if theres 20 violent people infront of them, or 120. Idiots want to watch and see what happens, but its also making a large impact on the response of the police. If they charge, how can they possibly tell which idiots are just watching and whose involved.

A strong appeal for people to go home as the police can't tell who is innocent and who isn't, so they will be rounding up and moving in on everyone would have gone a long way towards helping the situation.
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Hear hear. My housemate came back last night and said she wanted to go out and "see the riots" like it was some kind of public holiday :confused:
 
Anybody who says that we dont have any water cannons, just need to authorise the use of...


I'm sure that the airports would be willing to donate a few hours of support..
 
Ooh, a decent post. Yay!

drunkenmaster said:
You seem to be missing the major point most people are making. More people are joining in every day because they see on tv that no one is doing anything.

There is no downside to going and nicking stuff, water cannons disperse crowds, thats not a bad thing. You seem to be acting like water cannons are stationary, they aren't, they can follow the yobs until the yobs give up and go home, but you fail to see that.
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You're very right, there isn't a sense of danger or that they will ever be brought to account for the rioting. That's why people do it. The idea that water cannon will prevent this I fear is misguided. Start with the fact that the amount of water that a water cannon goes through. It's quite a lot, and quite quickly. The tank is finite. It will need to be refilled. I very much doubt that the fire fighting points in the street have the pressure and capacity to keep refilling it in a quick and effective way.
You can follow the yobs, until the water runs out. You then have a very expensive, very bulky appliance just sitting there as a target.

drunkenmaster said:
When you're drenched with cold water, or knocked back onto a hard concrete pavement, your will to get away nicking things with no consequences will diminish, the ones at the back who run away, the water cannon advances and continues firing on people and more and more people will give up.
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Speculation. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that water cannon doesn't stop people from doing what they want. It just antagonises them. Look at Bangkok, Genoa, etc. And there's also the fact that there aren't any water cannon in Great Britain.

drunkenmaster said:
Rubber/plastic bullets, they ruddy hurt. A riot geared up officer is great for rioters advancing on stationary coppers, they aren't useful in chasing down offenders, heres a hint, rubber bullet = faster than a rioter running away.

People cause trouble and just stay out of range of slow immobile forces, arm them, they are in range, they can actively, and much more safely for the police, injure and hurt the looters. Again, a looter who is continually shot will eventually either go down hurt, or go home because he doesn't want to be hurt any more.
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Sure, they ruddy hurt. But look at the numbers of rioters. They are there in their thousands. It's not a case of a few hardcore people orchastrating this. If it were, then perhaps snatch teams would be appropriate. This is mindless, uncontrollable and uncentered violence. We don't have enough rubber bullet guns, or enough officers trained to use it. It may work in a few select areas but it will just result in the groups moving elsewhere where the police don't have significant numbers.
The police would NEVER be allowed to fire upon retreating rioters. It's absurd and ignorant to think that they would.

drunkenmaster said:
They are both very large deterants, and people on TV rather than decide to join in tomorrow might see, the idea of joining in tomorrow, just getting their asses shot, knocked to the floor, soaked and arrested.

You couldn't be more wrong in suggesting that rubber bullets and water cannons wouldn't do anything. Tear gas, it will back people off when required, rather than watch from 20 metres as people rush into a store to loot it because they don't have the man power to push them back, a tear gas shell and people won't be easily able to loot the place. Its all about making looting not worthwhile for the people coming out, making it hard, making it work, making it hurt. Right now its easy, its low risk and high reward, when it becomes high risk and low reward, numbers will drop quickly.
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We don't have the equipment to protect the innocent when tear gas is being used. We haven't got the masks for the police, the fire brigade, ambulance staff etc etc. Tear gas is for clearing out an area such as a square or a building. It won't stop people running amok.
The use of any of these things is incredibly high risk and low reward, as you put it. It may prevent a bit of rioting but it is highly likely to increase the ill feeling within the rioters mind. That'll make them more resolved and allow them to believe what they doing is right in "fighting the man".
 
Burnsy2023 said:
Or perhaps just ease the funding cuts to our Police?
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Or modernise the police force and address why, despite massive funding increases and officer number increases over the last 15 years have resulted in a lower number of active, frontline officers and ever poorer policing?

The number of officers is far less important than their effectiveness and efficiency, and that is what fell over the Labour years.
 
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