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Nvidia unofficially, officially caught cheating in Crysis 2

Ejizz said:
Oh, that's fantastic news, I'l just go to my Nvidia control panel and turn the tessellation down a notch on my 460... just, uh how do that again?
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Sarcasm mode:

You ungrateful so n so, NV spent good money getting that put in & you want to take some of it away & besides your looking at it all wrong, the hit in performance is nothing compared to the hit the other brand is getting & armed with that uplifting knowledge you should glad & happy that the sacrifice in performance is for a greater cause.
 
I am currently playing crysis 2, with crossfired 2gig 6970's @ 950 mhz, 2500k@ 4.2ghz, 8 gig ram etc on at a res of 2560x1600. I get between 30-50 fps throughout the game.

That's with dx11, texture patch, and everything on ultra.

Runs a lot better than something like gta4 for me lol.
 
r2d2 said:
I am currently playing crysis 2, with crossfired 2gig 6970's @ 950 mhz, 2500k@ 4.2ghz, 8 gig ram etc on at a res of 2560x1600. I get between 30-50 fps throughout the game.

That's with dx11, texture patch, and everything on ultra.

Runs a lot better than something like gta4 for me lol.
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still low fps with all that gpu power that crossfired 6970's have tbh
 
Not sure what the big deal about tesselation is, it's been around for 9 years - the ATI Radeon 9700 Pro introduced a workable version called Truform, which was an option in Serious Sam Second Encounter (and possibly others that I can't remember).
 
sr4470 said:
Not sure what the big deal about tesselation is, it's been around for 9 years - the ATI Radeon 9700 Pro introduced a workable version called Truform, which was an option in Serious Sam Second Encounter (and possibly others that I can't remember).
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Never been in 'mainstream' use til now though.
 
Final8y said:
As far as evidence in this case its for the individual to decide because if the techreport said that NV was responsible that does not meant that is fact either just because they said so without providing where they got that fact from.

Not having solid evidence does not prove that the person didn't still in fact do it, you just need enough to be beyond reasonable doubt.

And if we believe the game is using more tessellation than necessary ?
Now there is 2 ways of looking at what you said there.
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I'm not really talking about the game aspect here...I'm talking about the rationality here. It is wrong to pass off "assumption" which itself is base off someone else's "assumption" as facts without evidence.

The title and OP post of this thread is stupid, as it is not about providing room for people to discuss round the subject, but instead it is about pushing own opinions as facts onto others. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend Nvidia here of the possibility that they might really be behind it, but what I'm trying to say is that if people are condemning them base on assumption alone without proper evidence, it would be no different from "burning the witch". If there's proper evidience that point to Nvidia being responsible, I would gladly jump on the Nvidia bashing wagon too; but there ain't any...there's only assumptions. Let's say someone got sent to jail by the court for a crime he may or may not have commited without any evidence, but base only the fact that there are lots of people believe he's gulity...does that sound right to you?

And reading the article, the dx11 patch for Crysis 2 wouldn't even exist without Nvidia's help...so shouldn't people be grateful for that? The game could had been just a dx9 console port game (not that it is not a console port at the moment...but may be adding tessellation to a console port is partly what contribute to the poorly implemented/applied of tessellation since the dx11 was pretty much added afterward, rather than the game being built ground up with dx11 feature?).
 
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On the flip side here Marine, if you went to 4 different seafood restaurants and got ill from eating at each of them, and then found out they all use the same local seafood supplier, would you say eh never mind its probably just coincidence or would you avoid restaurants that use that supplier from now on.

Its fine saying evidence evidence evidence but at some point you have to look at the chain of events and use your own common sense.
 
Thats fine and no one is saying nVidia definitely isn't behind it... there are however other just as credible explanations at this point - some of which actually seem more likely from a technical point of view at this point - its also stretching credibility from a technical point of view that nVidia completely ignored their own game dev guidelines (which have been adhered to even in other products where they've pushed tessellation to their advantage).

So jumping completely in the it must be nVidia camp and slamming them and anyone else who doesn't 100% agree is just stupid, as stupid at this point as saying it definitely isn't nvidia.
 
I would blame Crytek more, even if it turns out Nvidia did ask them to do it.
The problem for Nvidia is that they have a history of shenanigans so people will make assumptions.

Its really sad because with the console port controversy's these days Crytek are reducing the advantage of going the more expensive PC route for smoother gameplay and better graphics. Doing an efficient job like designers do on consoles would make the financial investment of gaming PC's much more appealing to gamers.
 
^^^
It all depends who you count more at fault.

1) The briber

2) The bribee

Without the briber, you cannot have the bribee.

"If Crysis 2 costs £26.99 at launch ($40), then the price will almost certainly drop steadily to around £10 ($15) in a matter of months. Let’s say that the average copy will sell for £20 including VAT. That’s £17 without tax. Out of that, you need to extract a profit for the store that sells it and any distributors who hold stock.
If EA is able to take £10 ($15) from each sale and pay the developer just over £3 ($4.60), then EA is looking at a gross profit of just under £7. Changing Great British Pounds to the Dollars of the United States, we get around $10. That makes the next bit of maths nice and easy.
By taking $2 Million out of nVidia’s marketing coffers up front, EA has the equivalent of 200,000 sales worth of profit. Nice."

http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/faith/nvidias-2-million-crysis/
 
Rroff said:
Thats fine and no one is saying nVidia definitely isn't behind it... there are however other just as credible explanations at this point - some of which actually seem more likely from a technical point of view at this point - its also stretching credibility from a technical point of view that nVidia completely ignored their own game dev guidelines (which have been adhered to even in other products where they've pushed tessellation to their advantage).

So jumping completely in the it must be nVidia camp and slamming them and anyone else who doesn't 100% agree is just stupid, as stupid at this point as saying it definitely isn't nvidia.
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lol, there is no question, Nvidia did it or had it done, there is no other option.


There is no credible reason AT ALL for a dev to spend time tesselating a pointless object that remains flat, no reason at all.

Also don't forget people, this is an AMD SDK tool, its showing what an AMD card is doing frame by frame. We haven't confirmed Nvidia is also using the same level of tesselation for the increased performance. Its possible that they've both increased the tesselation level just to kill AMD performance, its also possible that Nvidia cards don't use the same level of tesselation.

There is no logical reason here, theres no argument, there is ONE reason to add insanely high level of tesselation to flat objects, to increase the load on the gpu, with zero IQ benefit. Theres a thousand other objects in the game that aren't flat that they could have tesselated, but didn't.

It doesn't matter if Crytek did it on Nvidia's command, or Nvidia did it. As Rroff has had no trouble pointing out frequently in the past, TWIMTBP division has a LOT of programmers and advisors who go to all the companies they work with and work CLOSELY with the company. There is literally no chance in hell, its literally impossible Crytek did this, on a whim, and Nvidia did not see it and have a chance to tell them it was stupid.

They didn't, so we can very very very safely assume Crytek did not do this accidentally, or for some random made up reason. Nvidia paid Crytek $2mil, its a TWIMTBP title, it was not dx11 on consoles, Nvidia were closely involved in working with Crytek to deliver dx11........... and this tesselation part of it is nothing more than sabotage, cheating, dispicable, and hurts everyone.
 
Thats the point they wouldn't have spent time - spending time would have meant implementing adaptive tessellation mechanisms, ensuring the mesh didn't tear, etc. slapping tessellation over the top of the objects carelessly using the displacement image can easily result in the kind of issues we are seeing.

Also its not a (totally) flat object, the bump/displacement map has depth for several features on it - which is usually the source of data used to generate the tessellated version of the mesh.

On the flip side I'd also like to see whats happening on the nVidia side - unfortunatly I don't have Crysis 2 to test it with my cards - at this point we can't even rule out it being AMD hardware rendering it incorrectly and actually working fine on other GPUs - I haven't seen/can't find any screenshots showing what the meshes look like on non AMD hardware.
 
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