The reason why Free To Play MMO's are destroying the Genre

[bhavv]

No I am talking about western FTP models that are nothing similar to the Asian ones that you complain about.

I also told you that neither Maple Story nor Perfect World intrnational require as much money spent as you think they do to be able to win them.

lmao, you come here posting about free 2 play games and give me a list of games that used to be P2P games that have recently gone free2play.

Guild Wars says hi. Lotro has also had a 'BTP' model since the day it launched.

 

[Atavist]

One of the most unbelievably terrible terrible TERRIBLE comparisons I've heard in a long time. I'd sig that if I could, but its too long.

Seems to me we're both guilty of hyperbole here, wouldn't you say?

I could've just said "artificially enhance the perceived desirability of an item to reduce the price elasticity of demand and therefore to shift a greater volume at a high unit price". Instead I used an exaggerated example. So what. My point stands that F2P models are more open to manipulation than subscription models. That doesn't make F2P games the work of Satan, but the debate the OP wanted to instigate is worth having imo.

 

[Strife212]

They are all bottom of the barrel games, just let them be and play decent ones.

 

[bhavv]

The debate you are talking about is a lack of self control on the consumers end, and not being able to control how much they spend. This isnt an issue when I've managed to play the games you mention comfortable without hardly paying a thing for cash store items.

They are all bottom of the barrel games, just let them be and play decent ones.

Theres also a MASSIVE difference between Chinese / Korean MMOs and western ones. Asian FTP games tend to have more microtransaction options, but they tend to be so low priced that everyone can afford them. The games I played also didnt require me to 'buy2win' in any way at all.

Western MMOs tend to sell fewer mostly vanity items, and also expansions at higher prices. Purchases like potions and EXP boosters in either matter not when the game can still be comfortably played and beaten without them, all these things do is make it quicker.

Regarding the 'buy2win' argument, how exactly do you win in a fee based game such as WoW without paying?

They are all bottom of the barrel games, just let them be and play decent ones.

I wouldnt judge them all to be bad, I played Maple Story for around 6 - 8 months and only spent £20 because I wanted to. Thats hardly as expensive as people are making these games out to be, and most people play them without paying a single penny. The only bad thing is that I cant load up or log into the game.

 

[Kazz]

Because they are more addictive than WoW, GW, Lotro, DDO, Crack and Heroin combined.

 

[Sleepery]

I give up, you are clearly a 'special' individual.

You're not truly a member of the OcUk forums until you've had a banging-my-head-against-a-wall session with Bhavv

 

[bhavv]

Well, not serious about the bolded points, but I do find them far more addictive than western MMOs

 

[Atavist]

The debate you are talking about is a lack of self control on the consumers end, and not being able to control how much they spend. This isnt an issue when I've managed to play the games you mention comfortable without hardly paying a thing for cash store items.

I agree with that. It is about when the product/pricing stops being fair so that it isn't suitable for consumers.

From what I know about Western-style F2P games, personally, I'd say they are nowhere near the point where consumer protection should kick in. If you bought every single sparkly mount in the cash shop for all of your alts and you suddenly find yourself a few hundred quid out of pocket it's your fault. But I'm generally a "laissez-faire"/free market guy, so I'm sure there'll be other views. Maybe in a game targeted at kids we feel differently about untransparent pricing? I'd try another colourful example, but you'll call me out again so I won't

 

[craptakular]

I tried the WoW trial and felt embarrassed playing it because it had orks and goblins in.

Then I started World of Tanks and it's awesome!!

 

[LateX'Dog]

No they are saving the industry. Those MMOs wouldnt exist if they werent free to play, funny that, its actually the P2P method that was ruining the industry because no one was paying for the games. FTP actually saved them.

Have you ever thought the reason why people where not paying for said games was down to the fact that they were not providing them with the content they wanted?

People don't stop paying because they feel like it, there is always a reason and in example LOTRO's case, people enjoyed WoW more.

This is kinda like the whole bank bailout we did. When MMO's fail, it only strengthens the genre because people learn what does and doesn't work.

 

[bhavv]

FFS Maple story wont even load anymore, before it was loading and the hackshield wouldnt work, and now simply nothing happens when I double click it. BAD GAME!

Have you ever thought the reason why people where not paying for said games was down to the fact that they were not providing them with the content they wanted?

That cant be true because the games became successful after going FTP and DDO actually ended up with a lot more subscribers.

Do you genuinely believe that WoW is the only MMO out there that gives players what they want and other ones dont? Cant you actually consider that the games failed because there arent enough people outside of WoW willing to pay subscripton fees for any game?

If you put a subscription fee on GW, the vast majority of its community would quit and wouldnt pay to carry on playing, even though the game definitely provides them the content that they want.

Most people dont want and wont pay for fees. The people who will are a small niche market that has been dominated by WoW.

When MMO's fail, it only strengthens the genre because people learn what does and doesn't work.

I actually do agree with that - FTP works and P2P doesnt. Cant you understand that I, as well as most gamers would never pay fees for any single game, no matter how much they enjoy it?

 

[LateX'Dog]

That cant be true because the games became successful after going FTP and DDO actually ended up with a lot more subscribers.

But you can never judge the reason why. Was the game successful after because it was free or because the game was good?

If any game is free regardless people will play and download it.

Do you genuinely believe that WoW is the only MMO out there that gives players what they want and other ones dont?

No and i've never said that, i played WoW for 6 years so it appealed to me and my friends. But subscription numbers show that WoW is offering the content the genre want on a whole. (Not so much anymore, but thats another issue)

Cant you actually consider that the games failed because there arent enough people outside of WoW willing to pay subscripton fees for any game?

Right but was the game terrible to start with? A lot of the problems i have faced playing MMO's since WoW was the simple fact that they where not polished enough, didn't offer enough content and applied complex mechanics that were not needed and only used them to separate them from the competition for no reason.

The wheel works, why change it for the sake of it?

If you put a subscription fee on GW, the vast majority of its community would quit and wouldnt pay to carry on playing, even though the game definitely provides them the content that they want.

I'm not going to discuss the quality of the players in GW (from experience), but is a game providing content for a niche market really a indicator of what the genre wants.

If 15% (example) of the MMO genre want pemadeath, does that mean every MMO from now on should implement it?

Most people dont want and wont pay for fees. The people who will are a small niche market that has been dominated by WoW.

Its not a small niche market, its pretty much (or was) the entire market. People will pay P2P if the game offers the content on par or exceeding what WoW offers. For example (no bashing here) SWTOR is P2P and they are already at 1.5 million registered users and around the same figure have pre ordered. So clearly the P2P model is what the genre as a whole wants.

I actually do agree with that - FTP works and P2P doesnt. Cant you understand that I, as well as most gamers would never pay fees for any single game, no matter how much they enjoy it?

Free to play doesn't work, it lengthens the decline of a game so they can milk more money out of you.

If all games that went F2P switched off, the genre would be worse off without the choice, but to claim that F2P is the way forward and a saviour is a very narrow-minded and very misinformed opinion.

 

[bhavv]

So youre trying to tell me that the reason why DDO and Lotro didnt do well is because they are terrible games, and that people only play those terrible games now because they are free to play?

And also Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2 are terrible games because people wouldnt play them if they had fees?

Mega-lol.

There is absolutely nothing terrible about any of those three games, and I actually found WoW to be more 'terrible' than and of those three. I wouldnt even play WoW if it was FTP, I'd rather be playing any of the others.

Is Eve online a terrible game too? It only has around 350k subscribers.

More like the P2P market outside of WoW is tiny, and there simply arent enough people that are willing to pay fees. If games were terrible, then surely people wouldnt play them even if they were free!

 

[infernox]

I think the way Guild Wars 1/2 is is fine, buy the game for a one off fee and play the game to the death with no recurring fees or subscriptions.

 

[Tefal]

the only type of free to play games allowed should be ones like battlfield multipayer, cod etc... f2p mmo's are ruining the industry.

bf isn't really f2p someone has to pay for the servers.



but how are ftp mmos killing the paid for ones?

 

[LateX'Dog]

So youre trying to tell me that the reason why DDO and Lotro didnt do well is because they are terrible games, and that people only play those terrible games now because they are free to play?

I'm not saying there terrible, they just didn't offer what the vast majority of people wanted.

DDO is heavily based around the D&D rule set and mind set, so that limits its audience right away.

LOTRO to me, certain things about it still feel unfinished, clunky combat and many other things, but this isn't about my opinions on LOTRO.

And also Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2 are terrible games because people wouldnt play them if they had fees?

Your now putting words in my mouth and adding GW2 into the mix.

What you have to ask your self is, of the 7 million people who bought GW, how many are still playing? And that will give you a very good idea.

GW2, SWTOR, Tera and others now pose the greatest chance for change in the MMO industry for nearly 8 years and the "successful" one will show the way the market wants the genre to go.

There is absolutely nothing terrible about any of those three games,

Again i never said they where terrible.

Is Eve online a terrible game too? It only has around 350k subscribers.

EvE appeals to its market and audience it targets for. But does the sandbox and ethos of "do what you want", something the genre as a whole wants? No because if it was, more people would be playing it.

If games were terrible, then surely people wouldnt play them even if they were free!

Thats not true, when your options are limited and you want your MMO fix, you'll latch on to what you can.

Also people hope for change, when they shift from P2P to F2P, people will download it in the hope there is new content.

Please stop putting words in my mouth and making up wild accusations upon nothing i have said.

 

[LateX'Dog]

but how are ftp mmos killing the paid for ones?

Because it shows the publishers and developers the amount of money they can milk out of there audience while providing little or next to no quality.

A bit like Beko washing machines, there stupidly cheap to make and offer maximum profit for the manufacturer, but at the cost of the consumer.

 

[LeJosh]

What do you want?

There are so many people making games today, surely, someone must cater to what you want?

 

[bhavv]

Your now putting words in my mouth and adding GW2 into the mix.

From the GW2 thread:

I hate the game

Because it shows the publishers and developers the amount of money they can milk out of there audience while providing little or next to no quality.

Are you even reading anything in this thread? The exact same can be said about WoW - Milking people who pay the fee over several years of their money while providing little or next to no quality.

Yes I just said that.

So now GW2 has little or next to no quality, on top of you hating it, and is simply a game designed to milk as much money from its audience (OMG I paid £30 for GW(2) on release and played it for 3 years without paying a single penny more, damn, I was sure milked dry of all my money for this terrible game with little or next to no quality - Should have bought wow instead and paid over £300 to play it for 3 years).

 

[LateX'Dog]

What do you want?

There are so many people making games today, surely, someone must cater to what you want?

What do you mean? Are you asking me what i want personally?