Nadine Dorries abortion proposals

Vonhelmet said:
Why is it "a bit low"?

Shock news! Pro-choice group doesn't like what pro-lifers are doing!

How about some independent research?
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It is a bit low in that the Grauniad is running an undercover piece that is so biased and yet doing it with such bare faced cheek. They are passing off propaganda as news.

A lack of independent research is exactly my bone of contention.
 
lttlejoe said:
I would think that at a time like when a female is contemplating a termination, it is vital that NO influence, be it religious or financial, is placed on a woman in that position.

I would say arrest and imprison any religious thinking person or close down any group which tries to influence a girl's decision by telling her she is a murderer etc by having a termination.
I'm quite sure she is already under severe pressure and stress in having to make the life changing decision so, adding to it with religious nonsense could grossly affect her mentally, for the rest of her life!
The same would go for anyone or group with a financially vested interest which would give out advice to procure financial gain.

What a female does need in this situation is access to sound and open independent advice, free from all vested interests or religious bias.
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So you agree with the Dorrie proposal?
 
spudbynight said:
Do you think our sex education is bad? Do you think it is worse than, say Spain?
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Just look at the amount of teenage pregnancies.

A quick Wiki search gives you this, granted it is old, I will try and find some more figures...

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OldCoals said:
Just look at the amount of teenage pregnancies.

A quick Wiki search gives you this, granted it is old, I will try and find some more figures...

34qpp5d.png
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Thanks but that wasn't what I asked.

I asked if the Sex education in Spain was better or worse - NOT the amount of teenage pregnancies.
 
spudbynight said:
Do you think our sex education is bad?
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After attending the session our daughters school ran for parents about their sex education then yes, I would say that our sex education is bad.

spudbynight said:
Do you think it is worse than, say Spain?
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No idea, I know nothing at all about Spain's sex education.

As to the proposed amendment, the devil as they say, is in the detail. If it is just about allowing additional independant advice by choice, then I would have no issue with it. However considering the fact that Nadine Dorries is an out-spoken pro-life supporter I would be concerned if this was just about additional advice. What it seems to be is a method to remove a large chunk of advice which may suggest abortion as being an option.

Consider the language being used here, she is against advice being given by companies that "profit from abortion" and yet the main providers of abortion (and advice) are charaties. Is the amendment really about allowing women more advice or is it more about stopping them from recieving advice from pro-choice sources?
 
OldCoals said:
And since when did more mean better quality?
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Well you have made a statement saying our sex education is worse than the rest of the developed world and is the cause of our high teenage pregnancy rate.

I would be very interested to see some stats to prove that.

I personally don't believe that the difference in our stats compared to Spain is in any way linked to sex education. I think it is cultural but as you are stating the opposite as fact I would be interested in learning more.
 
Some people opt for abortion because our child care provision is minimal and as a society we hate single mothers, no wonder killing a baby is then rationalised as an acceptable and sane choice.

It's pretty dumb pontificating on subjects like this based on whether you hate religion or not.
 
spudbynight said:
Well you have made a statement saying our sex education is worse than the rest of the developed world and is the cause of our high teenage pregnancy rate.

I would be very interested to see some stats to prove that.

I personally don't believe that the difference in our stats compared to Spain is in any way linked to sex education. I think it is cultural but as you are stating the opposite as fact I would be interested in learning more.
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Writing in the British Medical Journal (BMJ) Mike Catchpole said other European countries has seen rises in sexually transmitted diseases among teenagers, but Britain's has been dramatic, Sweden had done particularly well in keeping a rein on chlamydia for instance and this was because of education and the targeting of young people through youth clinics.

A report by Unicef outlines that one reason for Britain's poor record could be the failure to prepare youngsters for an era of much looser sexual codes with effective sex and relationship education.

The report says: "The UK and the US are also societies that have experienced the socio-sexual transformation, but without making commensurate changes to prepare young people to cope with the new pressures.

"Contraceptive advice and services may be formally available, but in a closed atmosphere of embarrassment and secrecy. Or as one British teenager puts it – 'it sometimes seems as if sex is compulsory but contraception has failed'."

The researchers cite the experience of the Netherlands in particular, where teenagers are five times less likely to give birth than British youngsters and where abortion rates are very low. The Dutch, the report says, have the advantages of a "relatively inclusive society with more open attitudes towards sex and education, including contraception".

Sexual relationships are discussed at an early age – before barriers of embarrassment can be raised and before sex education can be interpreted as a signal to start having sex.
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Labour threw money at the problem when they were in power but didn't really do much with it in so far as making it acceptable for kids to talk about sex openly like in Europe, so while contraception was made widely available (a good thing), kids were too embarrassed to feel they could access it. Over here the idea of asking your mum to take you to the clinic is a big no no, where as in Europe, with much more open attitudes to sex and much more frank sex education, sex is not a big deal and openly discussed in general.(outside of strict backwards religious family's and the like)

Another good comparison is on a state by state basis in the USA where abstinence only religious education is taught Vs states that take sex ed seriously, but I can't be bothered to go through my old papers to find those details.
 
bitslice said:
no wonder killing a baby is then rationalised as an acceptable and sane choice.
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It's not killing a baby

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By saying its killing a baby you are perpetuating the myth that abortions occur during the 3rd trimester when a woman looks like this

shutterstock_512679612.jpg


This is completely false, 90% of abortions occur during the first trimester and by perpetuating the myth that a woman is killing a baby is doing untold damage to women who are having to endure the trauma of having to have an abortion. It is both a disingenuous and sick tactic used by pro lifers with alternative motives for not wanting people to have abortions.

http://jezebel.com/5794057/mis+illustrating-abortion
 
hurfdurf said:
It's not killing a baby

By saying its killing a baby you are perpetuating the myth that abortions occur during the 3rd trimester when a woman looks like this

This is completely false, 90% of abortions occur during the first trimester and by perpetuating the myth that a woman is killing a baby is doing untold damage to women who are having to endure the trauma of having to have an abortion. It is both a disingenuous and sick tactic used by pro lifers with alternative motives for not wanting people to have abortions.
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We allow abortion in this country up to 24 weeks. Babies can survive before this point - here is an example

That child could have been legally aborted in the UK. Are you saying Amillia was not a baby?

This child is the earliest surviving in Europe at 21 weeks and 5 days.

When does life start? Do you think that life begins at 24 weeks on the button from some sort of lifeless husk?
 
spudbynight said:
LOL - what always amuses me about people with this sort of view is just how intolerant they are.
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Other than repeated instances of 'Prove it! Prove it!, I can't really say that you have contributed much to an understanding as to why so many people in the UK have unwanted pregnancies or what can be done about it.

Since you have suggested elsewhere that you were an inmate at an Irish Christian Brothers institution, I suspect that you may well fall into that category often described as 'intolerant religious fundamentalist'.

I very much doubt that what civilised people would call enlightened sex education featured on the curriculum there since there have been occasional allegations of the sexual abuse of children by the Christian Brothers ;)
 
spudbynight said:
We allow abortion in this country up to 24 weeks. Babies can survive before this point - here is an example
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The vast majority of terminations in the UK occur well before 24 weeks where the "It's not a baby" is pretty much valid. The above argument however is pretty much indicative of the change of tact by pro-lifers like Nadine, knowing full well that a ban on abortion will never happen they try and make it as difficult as possible to have one instead.

spudbynight said:
When does life start? Do you think that life begins at 24 weeks on the button from some sort of lifeless husk?
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When do you think life starts? Because if you think it is conception then God is the greatest abortionist known...
 
stockhausen said:
Other than repeated instances of 'Prove it! Prove it!, I can't really say that you have contributed much to an understanding as to why so many people in the UK have unwanted pregnancies or what can be done about it.

Since you have suggested elsewhere that you were an inmate at an Irish Christian Brothers institution, I suspect that you may well fall into that category often described as 'intolerant religious fundamentalist'.

I very much doubt that what civilised people would call enlightened sex education featured on the curriculum there since there have been occasional allegations of the sexual abuse of children by the Christian Brothers ;)
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Hmm, that is a pretty offensive post from you. In fact your insult per post quotient there is really impressive - worthy of an award perhaps?

What "prove it, prove it" posts are you referring to? I have stated my view that offering impartial advice to women seeking abortions is a good thing. Nobody on this thread has come up with any sort of argument against it. In fact, quite the opposite, people have felt the need to start using this thread as a platform for their own hatred and intolerance.

I fail to see how your attempts to bring my personal background into play helps things. I attended one of the top public schools in England before moving to Ireland and attending one of the tops schools in the country there - which was run by Christian Brothers. I attended both schools without any faith but I fail to see how that matters.

Finally bringing allegations of sexual abuse into the post really is not on. You just let yourself down.
 
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