Nadine Dorries abortion proposals

bhavv said:
Except that the character of the daughter was much more likable than that of the daughter.
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I am pretty sure being forced to have a baby against your will would be enough to turn anyone into a bit of an unlike-able charterer, can you imagine those 9 hellish months, let alone then being held responsible for the unwanted child afterwards.
 
hurfdurf said:
And this is where we get to the sick and twisted part of pro lifers. Not only is a woman the victim of a rape, she then has to bare the audacity of having to endure the complete loss of sovereignty over her own body and bring her rapists child to term completely against her will.

How you can hold such a view amazes me, luckily you are in a tiny minority not only in this country, but across civilised society.
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If you genuinely want to ask me a question then a little bit of courtesy is needed.

I have utmost sympathy for the victims of rape - I just don't believe that trumps the right to life of an unborn child. Calling that viewpoint sick and twisted is not how to engage with another human being.
 
hurfdurf said:
Just out of curiosity how old are you, what would you describe you social status as and what church do you go to?
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I have tried to answer any questions on here letting my views stand on their own merits.

I don't think attempting to colour my views based on any of those facts is appropriate.
 
hurfdurf said:
I am pretty sure being forced to have a baby against your will would be enough to turn anyone into a bit of an unlike-able charterer, can you imagine those 9 hellish months, let alone then being held responsible for the unwanted child afterwards.
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No one is forced to have babies against their will though, plenty of contraceptive methods exist for preventing pregnancy which they could have used in the first place.

Also are you a male or a female? I dont think that pregnant mothers actually feel so much hatred towards unborn children as bluntly as you describe.
 
hurfdurf said:
And this is where we get to the sick and twisted part of pro lifers. Not only is a woman the victim of a rape, she then has to bare the audacity of having to endure the complete loss of sovereignty over her own body and bring her rapists child to term completely against her will.

How you can hold such a view amazes me, luckily you are in a tiny minority not only in this country, but across civilised society.
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Without meaning to throw a spanner in your finely tuned argumentative works, that view isn't exactly held by a majority of Christians.

Oh, sure, it's held by a vocal minority, but then those types always shout the loudest, don't they?
 
hurfdurf said:
And this is where we get to the sick and twisted part of pro lifers. Not only is a woman the victim of a rape, she then has to bare the audacity of having to endure the complete loss of sovereignty over her own body and bring her rapists child to term completely against her will.

How you can hold such a view amazes me, luckily you are in a tiny minority not only in this country, but across civilised society.
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In the fictional case I described, the offspring was not created by rape, but consensual, and most likely unprotected sex.

The number of pregnancies that are caused by rape and aborted, and even those aborted due to failed contraceptives are a small fraction of the total number of abortions. I support abortion for these cases, but if some stupid teen is running around taking her pants off for unprotected sex and getting pregnant, then in all fairness abortion shouldnt be a right for her carelessness and stupidity.
 
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Once a child is conceived, It should be brought to term if possible. This is my feeling, Why? Because once a child is conceived it has a chance at a life, and who are we to take away that chance.

People may disagree, and thats fine. But this is my view point on abortion.
 
wannabedamned said:
Once a child is conceived, It should be brought to term if possible. This is my feeling, Why? Because once a child is conceived it has a chance at a life, and who are we to take away that chance.

People may disagree, and thats fine. But this is my view point on abortion.
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The thing that people often forget is that the child has rights as well.

There is plenty of consensus to support the idea that life begins at conception

Dr. Hymie Gordon (Mayo Clinic):
"By all criteria of modern molecular biology, life is present from the moment of conception."

Dr. Micheline Matthews-Roth (Harvard University Medical School):
"It is scientifically correct to say that an individual human life begins at conception"
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The heart starts beating 21-24 days after conception. Brainwaves are detectable after 6 weeks.
 
spudbynight said:
The thing that people often forget is that the child has rights as well.
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What rights does a child have before it is born?

spudbynight said:
There is plenty of consensus to support the idea that life begins at conception
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No, there is plenty of consensus to show that potentional life begins at conception. Somewhere between 25-50% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. Therefore if your assertion that life begins at conception is true then God is the biggest abortionist out there, killing many babies before they even have a chance to be born. (You will forgive the emotive language I am sure, just putting it in pro-life terms).

spudbynight said:
The heart starts beating 21-24 days after conception. Brainwaves are detectable after 6 weeks.
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Define what a human life is and then you may be able to decide when it biologically begins. Good luck with that however.
 
RDM said:
What rights does a child have before it is born?

No, there is plenty of consensus to show that potentional life begins at conception. Somewhere between 25-50% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. Therefore if your assertion that life begins at conception is true then God is the biggest abortionist out there, killing many babies before they even have a chance to be born. (You will forgive the emotive language I am sure, just putting it in pro-life terms).

Define what a human life is and then you may be able to decide when it biologically begins. Good luck with that however.
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To be honest we are going off track here. I can provide experts that agree that life begins at conception - you can I'm sure provide experts to state the opposite.

This kind of situation is exactly why Mrs Dorries is correct to push for impartial advice. And I still can't see any reason why not to offer impartial advice to women on this topic.

Your statement that God is "the biggest abortionist out there" is just silly. At no point have I brought religion or any sort of belief in God into this discussion. If we step back and take that statement at face value it poses a question. Is God* directly responsible for everyone who lives or dies? If Mr Smith drops dead of a heart attack while running does that mean that God has killed him? If Mrs Jones gets pregnant and drinks and smokes like a navvy causing her to miscarry - do we attribute that to God's direct intervention?





*Let us assume for the purposes of your point that he does.
 
Vonhelmet said:
The trouble is that it seems to have become an option when wanted, which is a more questionable situation.
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indeed, It shouldnt be an easy choice. And it has become easy for so many.

A friend of mine referred to her unborn child as a parasite and she needed to "Get rid"

Those sorts of feelings towards falling pregnant are too common
 
Also, when I was talking about abortion earlier, and I said a chance at life. I didnt mean the biological sense.

I meant life, living, that child who gets aborted could have grown up, lived, loved and made a family of his/her very own.

The chance of that is destroyed by someone often selfish. even if the mother doesnt want the child, there's options to give the child up for adoption.
 
spudbynight said:
If a patient in a hospital has neither brainwaves or a heartbeat they will be proclaimed dead. These are ready indicators of life.
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That A => B does not necessarily mean that B => A. A person without these things may be dead, but a person with these things may not be alive as such.
 
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