Is this disabled parking space official?

[TW]Fox;19942007 said:
Any disabled person creating a hazard by parking in a ridiculous place is parking illegally. They can only park in places where there are no loading restrictions and they must not cause an obstruction.
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You can generally park on a double yellow where it is Safe to do so, where it will not cause an obstruction, and when there is no specific restriction.

IE you can park on double yellows on a straight, normal width bit of road, but not if there is a "no parking including disabled" notice (my highstreet has them)

However you can also park in "loading" and "unloading only" areas in some councils - at least that is what the traffic warden told me when I queried if it was ok to park all day in front of the MK train station* (the normal restriction is something like 30 minutes there) - I was taking my mother to a funeral at the time (I did however park a couple of rows back in a normal spot).

The blue badge rules vary depending on the local area, but the ones listed on the main website and the book that comes with the badge are generally accurate for most of the UK, you just have to remember to check the local sign-age, or ask a warden (most are actually fairly pleasant in my experience when asked a polite question).



*MK has one of the best approaches to disabled parking I've found, whilst they don't have a huge number of disabled spots, the rule there is generally on MK council/corporation owned land you can park in any spot, for any length of time.
 
Werewolf said:
The blue badge rules vary depending on the local area, but the ones listed on the main website and the book that comes with the badge are generally accurate for most of the UK, you just have to remember to check the local sign-age, or ask a warden (most are actually fairly pleasant in my experience when asked a polite question).
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And this is why [TW]Fox can't make a general sweeping statement that blue badge holders don't have to pay.
The sign in the OP tells my blue badge friends that they can park anywhere up the road for free but that is not the case.
The only free space is the imaginary box in front of the sign and they will have to pay to park anywhere else along that road.
They can park opposite the sign on double yellow lines though.
They also have to pay on a Stoke council car park unless otherwise stated or they find a disabled bay.

I'm going to Leeds for 3 days in a minute but when I get back I'm going to take a proper photo of the area so you can see what it looks like now.
Oh and I paid the fine on Sunday but still want to write them a letter now that DavidMarq has pointed out the errors.
Give me a little bit of credit, even though I would probably fail my driving test and I would 100% fail my written test, I have parked weekly/daily for the last 36 years and should spot when something doesn't look quite right and in this case DavidMarq has proved it.
Thanks
 
I've read 2 pages of this thread, and quite honestly, that was enough for me before I had to vent my anger at the stupidity of the OP and his equally thick friends.

Given the slightest bit of humouring, I could perhaps be persuaded to think that you thought the sign was simply letting everyone know that parking was indeed free for disabled badge holders but the following points can never be justified.

The space is on the end of correct parking (for non disabled drivers) and is marked so by the double ended line and extra wide spacing.
The sign, which is specifically, and only relevant, to the immediate space it adorns
The fact that if the entire road had been full of parked cars, a disabled driver still has the ability to park in a designated space.

For these reasons alone, there is no argument. You, and your friends are all equally as dim :p
 
dmpoole said:
And this is why [TW]Fox can't make a general sweeping statement that blue badge holders don't have to pay.
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They don't have to pay unless specifically stated otherwise (Rules are different in London though, but this isnt about London).

The sign in the OP tells my blue badge friends that they can park anywhere up the road for free but that is not the case.
The only free space is the imaginary box in front of the sign and they will have to pay to park anywhere else along that road.
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It is the case, they can park free in any of those bays.

This is what Stoke City Council have to say about free disabled parking:

Stoke.gov.uk said:
With a Blue Badge you can park for:

■three hours on yellow lines, as long as the car is not blocking the road or it is not parked in a loading bay;
■three hours in a limited waiting bay;
■free on our surface car parks;
■free in pay and display bays on the street in Stoke-on-Trent;
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This implies that only in some multi-stories will they have to pay and it certainly confirms that all council on-street parking bays are free for disabled people.
 
dear god what an awful thread,

It's a £35 ticket for parking in a space which you even agree was tenuous. regardless of whether 9 people agree with you or not - you took a chance that your interpretation was correct, it wasn't :(

Contesting the ticket is petty, you are/were in the wrong, cough up and feel free to advise the council that they might want to mark the bay more clearly.

moving on to Dabbles posts,

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

this is the end of the school holidays isn't it?
 
Lucero said:
I've read 2 pages of this thread, and quite honestly, that was enough for me before I had to vent my anger at the stupidity of the OP and his equally thick friends.

Given the slightest bit of humouring, I could perhaps be persuaded to think that you thought the sign was simply letting everyone know that parking was indeed free for disabled badge holders but the following points can never be justified.

The space is on the end of correct parking (for non disabled drivers) and is marked so by the double ended line and extra wide spacing.
The sign, which is specifically, and only relevant, to the immediate space it adorns
The fact that if the entire road had been full of parked cars, a disabled driver still has the ability to park in a designated space.

For these reasons alone, there is no argument. You, and your friends are all equally as dim :p
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I can't believe how dim you are that I have posted at least 5 times that the street view pic in the OP is not what it looks like. There is no box.
DavidMarq has even pointed out that even if it looked like the OP both the sign and box are illegal.
Well done for reading.
 
I'm going to get my money back.
On Saturday night one of the blokes looking at the supposed disabled parking space was my ex lead guitarist who has worked at the Council in the housing department for over 40 years and in his words "That's nothing like any disabled space I've ever parked in and I've been parking in a few over the years, I'll see somebody on Tuesday".
I got a text yesterday telling me to go and look at the parking space now because the Council have been out painting new lines :D

I did try to explain that you can't see any old lines there, even the 'normal' parking to the left is virtually missing and the only 'shopping' I've done is to resize for the forum.

No doubt [TW]Fox will argue it.

DavidMarq:
Do you think I can also get compensation for my trauma and all the things the clever kids said on OCUK upsetting me?

disabledparking.jpg


Original pic so you can check for 'shopping' - http://www.disturbinthepeace.co.uk/pics3/2011-09-03-10.44.24.jpg
 
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After seeing that picture I cannot remotely understand what's to discuss

madly you still think you were potentially in the right? you are/were smoking some seriously bubonic chronic, infact were all your (9) mates hotboxing with you? that might explain why you all thought parking in a blantantly disabled bay was excusable.

you are bang to rights, build a bridge and get over it
 
Will Gill said:
After seeing that picture I cannot remotely understand what's to discuss

madly you still think you were potentially in the right? you are/were smoking some seriously bubonic chronic, infact were all your (9) mates hotboxing with you? that might explain why you all thought parking in a blantantly disabled bay was excusable.

you are bang to rights, build a bridge and get over it
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I don't think you understand.
Stoke Council went up on Wednesday and painted the lines therefore admitting guilt.
(I didn't say that in my post - apologies)
 
Dogbreath said:
I'm a bit confused as well, seems blatantly obvious to me that the space is intended for disabled use in all the pics I have seen posted?
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There is no argument because Stoke Council have admitted it was wrong and they have gone out and painted new lines.
The below picture is 'shopped' to show what we saw last week.
Basically very faded double yellow lines, about 15 foot of nothing and then some very faded white lines leading off to the left.
The sign says Disabled Badge Holders Only Free Parking making it look like all the street is free for disabled parking.
THERE WAS NO BOX AROUND THE SPACE AND WHAT YOU SAW ON STREET VIEW WAS 2 YEARS OLD.

disabledparking2.jpg
 
dmpoole said:
DavidMarq:
Do you think I can also get compensation for my trauma and all the things the clever kids said on OCUK upsetting me?
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As you have stated in the thread that you have paid then the matter is closed as payment is considered to be an admission of liability for the PCN.

The key adjudication on this is very old and dates back to Civil Enforcement under RTA 1991 rather than TMA 2004, but the findings in Strauss v Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea.doc
 have not since been overturned.

Law other than civil enforcement law is outside of my expertise but I would hazard a guess that it is very unlikely that you have any claim in tort.
 
DavidMarq said:
Law other than civil enforcement law is outside of my expertise but I would hazard a guess that it is very unlikely that you have any claim in tort.
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So even though Stoke Council have admitted wrong by going out and painting the lines you don't think I'll get my money back?
(Your words are too clever for me)
 
dmpoole said:
So even though Stoke Council have admitted wrong by going out and painting the lines you don't think I'll get my money back?
(Your words are too clever for me)
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The appeals process is laid out in statute and notified to the recipient on the PCN. Had you followed the appeals process I am 99% certain that you would have got the PCN cancelled.

There is an option to go after the council for costs at the adjudication stage of the appeals process but the test for costs is that the council were vexatious, frivolous or wholly unreasonable. Costs are not often awarded.

Any attempt to pursue the council outside of the statutory provisions (appeals process & adjudication) would likely be met with a defence of wrong venue.

You could try a letter of complaint to the council, I know of one case where this has worked in the past but don't expect too much as they have your money and will be reluctant to return it.
 
Todge said:
Nice to see Motors living up to the reputation of being a welcoming place to ask questions and have discussion.
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In this thread it's rightfully so.

It is clear and as the vast majority have said - parking right in front of a disabled sign is wrong.

White lines on the road or not :rolleyes:
 
Will Gill said:
After seeing that picture I cannot remotely understand what's to discuss

madly you still think you were potentially in the right? you are/were smoking some seriously bubonic chronic, infact were all your (9) mates hotboxing with you? that might explain why you all thought parking in a blantantly disabled bay was excusable.

you are bang to rights, build a bridge and get over it
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What utter tripe.

The upright sign was unlawful.
The markings on the road were unlawful.
The PCN arguably does not comply with the regulations and is arguably unlawful.
The Traffic Order very likely has issues.
The CEO is obliged under the extant legislation to be trained to a sufficient level to recognise the signing defects and report them, rather than issue a PCN.

It is patently apparent that a contravention did not occur and had the OP not paid he could have appealed and won.
 
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