Save the NHS!

I can talk from experience that if you send the remaining money back they will knock that off your next budget plus a bit more.
The idea is to spend it all because they will knock some off the budget for next year anyway.
That's exactly what happened in the department I was in between 2008 and 2010.

Whoever was in charge of that budget made a rookie mistake. Would never happen in the private sector (gotta love those end of financial year parties ;) ).
 
Yeah we pay tax, but that's better then been sent a bill you cant afford after surviving from serious trauma like open heart surgery.

Imagine getting sent a bill you cant afford and then losing your house because it's been claimed by debt collectors, all because you were unlucky in life and had bad health.

That's not the kind of system we should want for ourselves and our children.

No, it isn't, but the choice isn't between the NHS and a post payment system... There are plenty of other choices.
 
Government has held talks about foreign companies taking over the NHS. They really do want to privatise it don't they?

And yet still a complete failure to provide evidence why privately run hospitals with state assured access (as used pretty much across the whole of Europe) is a bad idea that will somehow make British care worse despite the opposite happening on the continent.

Do you actually care about patients at all?
 
I hate the fact you can't say anything bad about the NHS.

"O, it's free, it's magical, wonderful!"

All these stories about how it's saved your life and such. Well, i'm on the flip side, my mother had two miscarriages because of the NHS's incompetence! Thirds times the charm, went private and i have a 10 year old little bro still with us today. He was 12 weeks early too.

It's not free. I hate this whole facade that the NHS is free. It needs a massive kick up the arse and controlled privatisation is probably going to do wonders with it in my opinion. Wouldn't you rather be taxed less, pay for insurance that's going to be competitive and receive a better service?

EDIT - When i go see my GP he just logs onto his computer and googles symptoms. Great eh?
 
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And yet still a complete failure to provide evidence why privately run hospitals with state assured access (as used pretty much across the whole of Europe) is a bad idea that will somehow make British care worse despite the opposite happening on the continent.

Foreign companies taking over the energy industry doesn't it? The quality of my gas supply is so much improved and prices are always dropping while a lot of high quality jobs have been created in the UK as a result. All the profit they make gets re-invested in the UK economy and we certainly don't need significant government investment in power infrastructure like Nuclear Power any more.

My concern is that as we already have the one of the cheapest healthcare system in the OECD, private companies will look at that and think that healthcare is underpriced in the UK and think they can increase the price of healthcare. Quality won't improve because the extra money we'll be forced to pay will go to fund profits. In the mean time a lot of taxpayer funded NHS jobs (HR, IT, Legal, PR, Marketing etc) will go to the private companies host countries in the US for example.

What I don't get is why the government seem to feel the need to encourage these foreign corporations to get involved? Surely their "leave it all to the free market" approach would normally apply here.

Remember once the NHS is gone it will be gone for good. No way will any government be able to set up the miracle of the NHS again once this government have torn it down. The government has no mandate for these changes to the NHS - it was not in the Conservative party manifesto and the coalition agreement actually precludes it by stating there would be "no top-down reorganisation of the NHS".

Aneurin Bevan said:
The NHS will last as long as there are folk left with the faith to fight for it
 
Nothing unaffordable about public sector pensions (Source). What's unfair imo is that private sector pensions are so crap for the vast majority of people.

Why are public sector pensions crap? Did you see the Panarama prog on the fees the pension industry rip off the sum and the fact that others in other countries get more because they regulate how much can be taken.?

I am old enough to remember the time the UK public was getting ripped off for mortgages using the end of the year calculation. That changed due to public anger that others were paying off their mortgages years early.

The pensions are crap because the financial industry rip of the public at every opportunity. They drag their feet when they are caught out and have to repay e.g. PPI

Reform the financial sector and get a better pension.
 
Why are public sector pensions crap? Did you see the Panarama prog on the fees the pension industry rip off the sum and the fact that others in other countries get more because they regulate how much can be taken.?

I am old enough to remember the time the UK public was getting ripped off for mortgages using the end of the year calculation. That changed due to public anger that others were paying off their mortgages years early.

The pensions are crap because the financial industry rip of the public at every opportunity. They drag their feet when they are caught out and have to repay e.g. PPI

Reform the financial sector and get a better pension.

You forgot Gordon Brown's extraction of at least £100bn by changing the tax rules overnight ;)
 
Foreign companies taking over the energy industry doesn't it? The quality of my gas supply is so much improved and prices are always dropping while a lot of high quality jobs have been created in the UK as a result. All the profit they make gets re-invested in the UK economy and we certainly don't need significant government investment in power infrastructure like Nuclear Power any more.

I asked for evidence regarding the NHS, not your opinion regarding random privatisations.

My concern is that as we already have the one of the cheapest healthcare system in the OECD, private companies will look at that and think that healthcare is underpriced in the UK and think they can increase the price of healthcare. Quality won't improve because the extra money we'll be forced to pay will go to fund profits. In the mean time a lot of taxpayer funded NHS jobs (HR, IT, Legal, PR, Marketing etc) will go to the private companies host countries in the US for example.

but we tripled spending on the NHS and showed no improvements... Your concerns are your opinion, again, I asked for evidence. We also spend around the OECD average, so it isn't one of the 'cheapest' systems, but in terms of clinical outcomes, it punches below it's funding...

What I don't get is why the government seem to feel the need to encourage these foreign corporations to get involved? Surely their "leave it all to the free market" approach would normally apply here.

They should make it clear that they will welcome any capable and willing provider, what is wrong with that?

Remember once the NHS is gone it will be gone for good. No way will any government be able to set up the miracle of the NHS again once this government have torn it down. The government has no mandate for these changes to the NHS - it was not in the Conservative party manifesto and the coalition agreement actually precludes it by stating there would be "no top-down reorganisation of the NHS".

It was in both the Conservative and Lib Dem manifestos, perhaps you want to revisit...

I'd also point out that there is a reason why no other country copied the NHS layout, and that reason is that there are better options. So far you've still provided no evidence based information to the contrary.
 
All these stories about how it's saved your life and such. Well, i'm on the flip side, my mother had two miscarriages because of the NHS's incompetence! Thirds times the charm, went private and i have a 10 year old little bro still with us today. He was 12 weeks early too.

same, my it didn't treat my grandad at all. Even though he had gigantic kidney stone that French hospitals found in minutes and another time when English said there was no problem, but again French hospital found cancer.


On the other hand they've treated me well in A&E although I do question them not giving me a cat scan when looking back.
 
And yet still no evidence that the changes are a bad idea...

It's sad that this sort of post is considered an acceptable alternative to actually trying to debate a point in a mature fashion.

And yet still no evidence that the changes will be a good thing.....

It's sad that this sort of post is considered an accpetable alternative ........
 
And yet still no evidence that the changes will be a good thing.....

I've provided the information about multiple international comparisons where we do badly, against countries that used the system we look to be moving towards. Try again.

But for those who are unable to use Google, here we go...

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/46/4/38980557.pdf

And some information on the models used elsewhere in Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_France
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Germany
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_the_Netherlands
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Denmark

so again, we don't see emulation of the centrally dictated model of the NHS
 
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You forgot Gordon Brown's extraction of at least £100bn by changing the tax rules overnight ;)

You forgot Thatcher's Chancellors setting up the mechanism to loot the pensions and their extraction of cash from them as I have shown many times before.

Still never let facts get in Dolph's way of any anti-Labour rant.
 
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You forgot Thatcher's Chancellors setting up the mechanism to loot the pensions and their extraction of cash from them as I have shown many times before.

Still never let facts get in Dolph's way of any anti-Labour rant.

Lamont stopped companies overpaying into their pension funds as a tax dodge by taxing surpluses

Brown changed the taxation level for transactions completed by pension funds, thereby dramatically changing the investment profile of money already in the system, reducing the trading based increases significantly and therefore requiring increased funding to meet the same expected payments at the end.

Small difference between the two ;)
 
The future of the government's health reforms has been plunged into fresh doubt as the Liberal Democrat peer Shirley Williams raises new concerns, and secret emails reveal plans to hand over the running of up to 20 hospitals to overseas companies.
...
Writing in Sunday's Observer, Williams raises a series of issues that she says must be addressed. Chief among them is a legal doubt as to whether the secretary of state will any longer be bound to deliver "a comprehensive health service for the people of England, free at the point of need".

Some critics of Lansley believe the Tories are bent on a mission to privatise the NHS, gradually handing it to the private sector. They fear that moves to end the legal obligation on the secretary of state to deliver comprehensive services may be a deliberate part of the process.

Concerns that ministers want more private involvement will be strengthened by details of email exchanges involving senior health officials about handing the management of 10 to 20 NHS hospitals to international private companies. The emails, which were made public following a freedom of information request and were obtained by non-profit-making investigations company Spinwatch, show that officials have been planning since late last year to bring in international companies. This is despite repeated insistences by both David Cameron and Nick Clegg that there will be no privatisation of the NHS. (The Observer)
I wonder what 'international private companies' those might be?
 
I've provided the information about multiple international comparisons where we do badly, against countries that used the system we look to be moving towards. Try again.

But for those who are unable to use Google, here we go...

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/46/4/38980557.pdf

And some information on the models used elsewhere in Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_France
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Germany
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_the_Netherlands
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Denmark

so again, we don't see emulation of the centrally dictated model of the NHS

This depends on a lot off things to make these things happen. A lot of countries have systems that would work for them but not for others.

Funny how you should use France as an example. They have one of the more heavily unionised workforces but you are always saying that they are responsible for the problem. (You only need to go back a few pages to see your latest rant).

Always beware off trying to take foreign systems and planting them in the UK.
The table system, pushed by Blair was a US President Clinton's idea. Look at the disasterous effect it had on this country.
 
Lamont stopped companies overpaying into their pension funds as a tax dodge by taxing surpluses

Brown changed the taxation level for transactions completed by pension funds, thereby dramatically changing the investment profile of money already in the system, reducing the trading based increases significantly and therefore requiring increased funding to meet the same expected payments at the end.

Small difference between the two ;)

Telling companies to take pension tax holidays because the pension funds were in surplus when the population demographics showed that they actually needed to put more money aside for their upcoming liabilities.

The pension crisis can be squarely put on their shoulders. Subsequent Govt's could have done something about it but did not.
 
This depends on a lot off things to make these things happen. A lot of countries have systems that would work for them but not for others.

True to a point, but the system we have doesn't work for us either, unless you think preventable deaths are acceptable.

Funny how you should use France as an example. They have one of the more heavily unionised workforces but you are always saying that they are responsible for the problem. (You only need to go back a few pages to see your latest rant).

What's the youth unemployment (and general unemployment level) in France again?

Always beware off trying to take foreign systems and planting them in the UK.
The table system, pushed by Blair was a US President Clinton's idea. Look at the disasterous effect it had on this country.

Of course, we should be wary, but we should also be wary of simply accepting the evidentially inferior system that we have simply because we already have it, because it's popular or because people misguidedly think it's free.
 
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