Nikon announcement inc (has to be..) I AM COMING (ohh err?)

Rich said:
Think ill skip this one. Will be interesting to see what Canon do. So far, ill either keep my GF-1 or hop across to the NEX-7 (bloomin expensive but Focus Peaking turns me on ;)).
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Yeah the focus peaking is a very nice feature on the Nex stuff. Also they have a neat panaramic software mode which actually works really well by the looks of it giving stunning images without the need for wideangle lens. Obviously won't work for all types of shots but still cool. Nex also has very strong video capabilities.

The problem with the nex7 is it's just looking like it will be far too costly, and the lens line up truely is terrible. Not one of the lenses match up to the compact body for a proper nice size combination. Even the 24mm Zeiss lens is way too big. Sony are aware they need pancake primes and/or zoom lenses and they need to address this asap.

It feels like at the moment we are maybe 6 months away from the holy grail mirrorless setup which I would define as below:

- Rangefinder style compact body with ergonomics similar to Nex7
- Built in electronic viewfinder (EVF) similar to nex7
- Good sensor with improved ISO and DR
- In body image stabilisation
- APS-C sensor size
- Good lens line up including a mixture of pancake primes/zooms, power zooms such as the new Pansonic X series lens, compact primes and faster slightly less compact glass. A general good range.

Additional nice to haves but probably won't happen for a while all in the same body:

- Focus peaking
- Tank like build
- Weather sealing

The closest to the above so far has to go down as micro 4/3rds as it has the best lens line up. The only thing it lacks is a good compact body with a built in EVF. This is sure to come within the next 6 months. I don't think the 2x sensor is as bad as people make out, and DOF control is "good enough" to still make great shots and is a fair compromise for the size.
Samsung have the lens line up, but not a decent body with built in EVF yet. So we wait.....

It does feel like Camera manufacturers always push out new tech gradually to milk the market just enough. It would be great for someone to push the boundaries and bring something of a real best effort to the table in one hit. Sony have done this with the nex7, but the lenses are the problem. The price to be fair - whilst steep - was always going to be high. It's Sony, and it's cutting edge tech.
 
Hmmmm, lenses are a bit disappointing. They're not much smaller than the NEX stuff either, the standard zooms; Nikon 10-30 is 57.5x42mm whilst the Sony 18-55 is 62x60mm. So the Sony is a bit bigger but a bigger range as well. The pancake 10mm is 55.5x22mm, the Sony 16mm is 62x22.5mm. Nikon 10-100mm is 77x95mm, the Sony 75.5x99mm... So really not a lot in it.

If I was a Nikon shooter I'd be interested in the F mount adapter, I'm sure some fun can be had with that :)
 
D.P. said:
The V1 has a aviewfinder, the J1 is the smallest EVIL camera there is.
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True, the EVF for the 5N is ungainly. The size differences are so small I can't see a reason to go for the smaller sensor of the 1 series. Difficult market.

I'm going to keep an eye on the NEX5N prices post the NEX7 release, I might pick one up second hand for a walkabout\chuck in the bag sort of thing.
 
jaybee said:
Yeah the focus peaking is a very nice feature on the Nex stuff. Also they have a neat panaramic software mode which actually works really well by the looks of it giving stunning images without the need for wideangle lens. Obviously won't work for all types of shots but still cool. Nex also has very strong video capabilities.

The problem with the nex7 is it's just looking like it will be far too costly, and the lens line up truely is terrible. Not one of the lenses match up to the compact body for a proper nice size combination. Even the 24mm Zeiss lens is way too big. Sony are aware they need pancake primes and/or zoom lenses and they need to address this asap.

It feels like at the moment we are maybe 6 months away from the holy grail mirrorless setup which I would define as below:

- Rangefinder style compact body with ergonomics similar to Nex7
- Built in electronic viewfinder (EVF) similar to nex7
- Good sensor with improved ISO and DR
- In body image stabilisation
- APS-C sensor size
- Good lens line up including a mixture of pancake primes/zooms, power zooms such as the new Pansonic X series lens, compact primes and faster slightly less compact glass. A general good range.

Additional nice to haves but probably won't happen for a while all in the same body:

- Focus peaking
- Tank like build
- Weather sealing

The closest to the above so far has to go down as micro 4/3rds as it has the best lens line up. The only thing it lacks is a good compact body with a built in EVF. This is sure to come within the next 6 months. I don't think the 2x sensor is as bad as people make out, and DOF control is "good enough" to still make great shots and is a fair compromise for the size.
Samsung have the lens line up, but not a decent body with built in EVF yet. So we wait.....

It does feel like Camera manufacturers always push out new tech gradually to milk the market just enough. It would be great for someone to push the boundaries and bring something of a real best effort to the table in one hit. Sony have done this with the nex7, but the lenses are the problem. The price to be fair - whilst steep - was always going to be high. It's Sony, and it's cutting edge tech.
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The problem with the Pano feature is that its JPEG only, which is fine for most people I guess but not for people who spend £1000 on a camera :) Definitely a useful feature though, and definitely not something anyone will be doing with RAW due to the FPS requirement.

I was thinking of getting some of the more compact Voigtlanders like the 12mm f5.6 and the 35mm f1.4 and using those. Not really sure at the moment to be fair. You would get both of those lenses for the same price as that Zeiss though. AutoFocus goes in the bin however :)

I may just end up getting one of the new Panny lenses due out.
 
The V1 has got my interest a little, I imagine it could be quite fun trying some top Nikon lenses with it via the adaptor.

The small size interests me too, but realistically, if I was going to use it with a 70-200 or similar, I may as well take a DSLR.

The price gets my interest too, but for all the wrong reasons!

This camera just wasn't designed for the likes of me, which is fine, but still leaves me looking for a small 'carry all the time' compact with a good lens/lenses, which doesn't cost a fortune and that has good image quality.
 
Rojin said:
Hmmmm, lenses are a bit disappointing. They're not much smaller than the NEX stuff either, the standard zooms; Nikon 10-30 is 57.5x42mm whilst the Sony 18-55 is 62x60mm. So the Sony is a bit bigger but a bigger range as well. The pancake 10mm is 55.5x22mm, the Sony 16mm is 62x22.5mm. Nikon 10-100mm is 77x95mm, the Sony 75.5x99mm... So really not a lot in it.

If I was a Nikon shooter I'd be interested in the F mount adapter, I'm sure some fun can be had with that :)
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If the lesnes are similar in size to the Sony Nex lenses then this would be disapointing. One aspect may be ergononics. One would have to wait to see if Nikon produce more small pancakes.
 
Tooks said:
The V1 has got my interest a little, I imagine it could be quite fun trying some top Nikon lenses with it via the adaptor.

The small size interests me too, but realistically, if I was going to use it with a 70-200 or similar, I may as well take a DSLR.

The price gets my interest too, but for all the wrong reasons!

This camera just wasn't designed for the likes of me, which is fine, but still leaves me looking for a small 'carry all the time' compact with a good lens/lenses, which doesn't cost a fortune and that has good image quality.
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The price quoted online is not the final online price. Nikon cameras soemtimes sell for half their RRP and Nikon is not too shy at having aggressive or at least competitive pricing. Once the dust settles the price will fall to something where Nikon thinks they are maximising profits, which liekly means trying to under cut the competition a little. The big plus point for the Nikon 1 series smaller sensor equates to lower camera costs and cheaper lenses. In a race to the lowest prices Nikon should win here, Sony should loose.

As to your last point: compact, good lenses, doesn't cost a fortune, good image quality - I think you will have to make some compromises.

The Leica M9 does almost everything except not costing a fortune (and to be honest it needs updating with a new sensor, and you still have rnage0finder limitations).

The Sony Nex lacks a lens line up, is not exactly cheap and wont be that compact.

The m43rds sit in a middle place, neither that compact, not that great IQ, but you have a good lens line up.

The Nikon should be the most compact, but we need to see the coming lenses. Obviosuly you have given up some IQ compared to a full frame M9, and probably the Nex, but you are probably have betetr images than a m43s camera.

Then there is the S100, XZ-1 , G12, LX5 etc. Maximise compactness, minimise costs, and have acceptable IQ under easier conditions for casaul use.
 
I-ve just been reading, the 2.7x crop factor put the sensor size as ideal for 1" C mount lenses - for theose that don-t know C mount is the standard in industrial lenses for things like CCTV, microscopes, and also 16mm cinema film cameras, with a huge array of available lenses, from all different focal lengths, apertures, qualities and prices. I've used 120 degree fish angles, and played with various other lenses with good experience.

Options include (jthere are hudnreds more):
6mm (16mm equivalent) f/1.2 50mm long
12.5mm (34mm equivalent) f/1.4 42mmx50mm (diameter X length), 135g $200
25mm (67.5mm eq) f/1.4 30mmx37mm, 67g, $159
50mm (135mm eq) f/1.4 48mmx48mm, 180g, $200
Pentax 25mm F1.4 $50-100
Bell & Howell Angenieux 25mm F0.95 US$1,600
35mm f1.7 $40
LEICA c19​54-1968 Elmar f4/90mm $300
Zeiss lens Tevidon 2/10
Fujinon 75mm F1.8
Carl Zeiss 85mm f 1.4 Planar T*
 
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D.P. said:
Obviosuly you have given up some IQ compared to a full frame M9, and probably the Nex, but you are probably have betetr images than a m43s camera.
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lol, not a m43s fan are you D.P? :D

The Pentax 25mm will be a great little telephoto option. http://www.efixmedia.de/photography/2010/03/04/cosmicarpentax-251-4-c-mount-tv-lens-review/
It's just a shame they didn't offer a compelling lens straight away, like mFT/Panasonic did with the GF1 + 20mm F1.7 kit. (makes buying into the whole thing much easier :p).

I guess Nikon should be able to implement something like focus peaking to help with legacy lenses considering the available power under the hood?

Really like the new technology that's being introduced with the new sensor/processor too. The phase-detection AF, data throughput, smart photo selector, all good stuff! (is that like timewarp/zero shutter lag hardware we're starting to see on phones?)

Wonder who makes the sensor if Sony don't?
 
sarge78 said:
Wonder who makes the sensor if Sony don't?
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Lots of confusion potentially there, it could be Sony made to a Nikon design, certainly plenty of Nikon sensors have been made by them in the past, including both Sony designs tweaked by Nikon and original Nikon designs.

Nikon do design sensors in house and given the uniqueness of this one (size and performance are unlike anybody else's products) I'm guessing this was in house design. After that it's neither here nor there really who actually fabbed the sensors, could be Sony, could be half a dozen others too.
 
sarge78 said:
It's just a shame they didn't offer a compelling lens straight away, like mFT/Panasonic did with the GF1 + 20mm F1.7 kit. (makes buying into the whole thing much easier :p).
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I can't remember the last time the 20mm wasn't on my GF1, I'm using it more than my D300 now :o but then I do less photography than you guys.
 
DanF said:
I can't remember the last time the 20mm wasn't on my GF1, I'm using it more than my D300 now :o but then I do less photography than you guys.
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Love my GF1 too. Got the 20mm and the Oly 9-18. Its been to China (Great wall) and the Himalaya (Everest Base Camp) in the last year. Never missed a beat :)
 
Rich said:
Love my GF1 too. Got the 20mm and the Oly 9-18. Its been to China (Great wall) and the Himalaya (Everest Base Camp) in the last year. Never missed a beat :)
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That's pretty much what I'm considering whilst waiting for the newly rumoured GFX1, although the G3 is very good value at the moment once you take into account £50 cashback and free LR3.
 
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