Rory Weal at the Labour Party conference

[wildman]

Yah, I'm sorry we ****** up the economy, the population demographic (people seem to forget this), spent all the money then borrowed some more to spend but please let us back into power so we can let the trade unions who bankroll are party run the country again

I am not making excuses for them, I am not even a labour voter, I am just trying to point out that there is no point being blinkered in your (sic) hatred of the opposition. Do you think we would be in the same position if the Tories had been in power for the last 13 years ? There was still a global economic collapse and catastrophic failure of banks worldwide. UK PLC P&L sheet would likely have looked a bit healthier but we would still be seeing austere times due to global financial turmoil. It takes a little longer than 13 years to bring a country to its knees, therefore the blame cannot be parked fully at the last administrations doorstep.

They can take the heat for a lot of bad desicions that lead us to this current situation but are not fully responsible for the total disaster.

 

[Dr House]

Agreed but as you say if the country was better managed the uk would have got through the crisis without it having such a huge impact on the country.

 

[Things change I've changed]

It's strange I always see people blaming Labour for the state of our economy but wasn't it a cascade effect after the subprime mortgage crisis in America?, I listen to a lot of financial podcasts and I never here any of them blaming Labour, I'm not saying Labour couldn't of handled the fallout of this crisis better but it was a bubble that had to bust at some point and it so happened to bust while Labour was in power, people on here talk as if the Tories were in power we wouldn't even been effected.

 

[wildman]

It's strange I always see people blaming Labour for the state of our economy but wasn't it a cascade effect after the subprime mortgage crisis in America?, I listen a lot of financial podcasts and I never here any of them blaming Labour, I'm not saying Labour couldn't of handled the fallout of this crisis better but it was a bubble that had to bust at some point and it so happened to bust while Labour was in power, people on here talk as if the Tories were in power we wouldn't even been effected.

Labour responsible for the global recession = No
Labour responsible for leaving UK with a terrible balance sheet further exacerbated by the recession due to poor economic policy and spending desicions = YES

the 2 things are different. had Labour reined in their spending, had Gordon Brown not sold gold reserves at such a low point, had Labour sorted out their ever growing social welfare bill, had Labour made better and wiser investment sin the NHS (i,e not wasted 12.7 Billion on a useless IT project), we may just have been in a slighlty better financial position in the UK to ride out the recession with fewer Austerity measures.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3520126.stm

pay particular notice to the sub paragraph borrowing druing downturn. This article is from 2004. Much of it has actually come to pass

 

[Mucky_Pup]

I think whoever's controlling the strings on the Ed Milliband marionette on that video needs to be sacked, his clapping was atrocious, quick get Gerry Anderson on the blower, he'll sort him out.

 

[Things change I've changed]

we may just have been in a slighlty better financial position in the UK to ride out the recession with fewer Austerity measures.

Yes, we may have been in a slightly better financial position now, it's easy to look back in retrospect and criticise, we don't know how the Tories would have reacted or the decisions they would have made in government before we even knew there was a rescission looming, America was making the same mistakes, we all were, subprime lending was at an all time high, we were living beyond our means, we had a false since of security due to an inflated economy that even financial analysts at the time didn't predict bursting any time soon.

And with regards to that article of course the Tories are going to criticise over-borrowing while they aren't in power, I would do the same, it's the sensible thing to do, you can't lose with that plan of attack, it's hard to say what they would have down in the same position, when your not in power it's your job to scrutinise and criticise those that are in power, people talk as if it's an absolute that the Tories would have made all the right decisions, that's what vexes me.

 

[scorza]

That's precisely the point?

His upbringing — son of a multi-millionaire, once attended a ludicrously expensive private school, now attends a selective grammar school — is completely incongruous with both the labour philosophy and the overwhelming majority of their party's supporters, yet because he can deliver a speech he's being held up as their latest prodigy.

If he had been speaking at the Conservative party conference we wouldn't be making these observations, you are correct, because he would fit right in with the party and their supporters.

What a ridiculous notion, segregation by upbringing. The Labour party welcomes everyone regardless of class, colour or creed - I imagine practically ever other British political party is the same. What's important is where you want to go - not where you came from.

 

[Al Vallario]

..

 

[ubersonic]

For a 16 year old he managed to give a very good speech.

Its not really "very good", just compared to the average speech at a labour function ^^

had Labour reined in their spending, had Gordon Brown not sold gold reserves at such a low point, had Labour sorted out their ever growing social welfare bill, had Labour made better and wiser investment sin the NHS (i,e not wasted 12.7 Billion on a useless IT project), we may just have been in a slighlty better financial position in the UK to ride out the recession with fewer Austerity measures.

Don't forget managing to let the Euro-fighter project get north of £37 billion >.> (yes the project was started in the 80's under the torys but that was before mismanagement increased the costs logarithmically)

 

[scorza]

So you wouldn't bat an eyelid if Gaddafi turned up at the UN and started preaching about democracy and human rights, because it's about where he wants to go, not where he came from?

LOL comparing Gaddafi with a 16 year old kid who went to school where his parents sent him

 

[Westyfield2]

lolLabour.

 

[Al Vallario]

..

 

[Killerkebab]

I don't understand how here (and in France, can't comment on other countries as I don't know) we all love to blame whichever government was in charge for the current financial crisis.

If we look outside of our borders we can see that almost every developed country in the world is experiencing similar problems. They can't all have had New Labour governments... right?

 

[Number_25]

Years ago I was asked to give a presentation on my Comprehensive School by the governors to some ministers at the Welsh Assembley. I grasped the oportunity, I was in the middle band so I wasn't picked for my intellectual prouness. I didn't like the school, and I felt that it let me down on bullying so you could imagine what my presentation was about.

The opening line was "--------- Comprehensive School, a place of learning, stern movement and constant let downs. This joke of a school is a pain in the ribs of any tax payer who sadly forks out for the poor standard of management and teaching". Needless to say, I was quickly pushed to aside my headteacher.

Lol.

 

[shoes]

What a ridiculous notion, segregation by upbringing. The Labour party welcomes everyone regardless of class, colour or creed - I imagine practically ever other British political party is the same. What's important is where you want to go - not where you came from.

In which case he's joined the wrong party because they're not going anywhere.

 

[wildman]

Yes, we may have been in a slightly better financial position now, it's easy to look back in retrospect and criticise, we don't know how the Tories would have reacted or the decisions they would have made in government before we even knew there was a rescission looming, America was making the same mistakes, we all were, subprime lending was at an all time high, we were living beyond our means, we had a false since of security due to an inflated economy that even financial analysts at the time didn't predict bursting any time soon.

And with regards to that article of course the Tories are going to criticise over-borrowing while they aren't in power, I would do the same, it's the sensible thing to do, you can't lose with that plan of attack, it's hard to say what they would have down in the same position, when your not in power it's your job to scrutinise and criticise those that are in power, people talk as if it's an absolute that the Tories would have made all the right decisions, that's what vexes me.

I never said the Tories would do a better job, I simply said If labour would have controlled their spending better. Who's to say the Tories may have done an even worse job and we could really be up the creak like Greece. I am being objective, I am saying If Labour did x, y and Z , I didn't say the Tories would have done X, Y and Z and we would have been fine.

The facts still remain......

1. Brown DID sell the UK gold reserves when the price was very low
2. Labour DID waster 12.7 billion on an IT system that never delivered
3. Labour DID fail to control social welfare and benefits payments

These are actual facts and poor economic decisions that Labour DID make during their administration

 

[wildman]

So you wouldn't bat an eyelid if Gaddafi turned up at the UN and started preaching about democracy and human rights, because it's about where he wants to go, not where he came from?

That's a little extreme of a comparison and the absurdity of it does in a way negate your argument.

 

[wildman]

I don't understand how here (and in France, can't comment on other countries as I don't know) we all love to blame whichever government was in charge for the current financial crisis.

If we look outside of our borders we can see that almost every developed country in the world is experiencing similar problems. They can't all have had New Labour governments... right?

Labour did not bring about the financial crisis as such. It was going to happen regardless of who was in power due to the insane lack of control across the banking sector world wide. Sub Prime lending in the US being one of the major contributing factors and exposure of many UK banks to the various debt markets.

What labour did do though is through poor economic policy and lack of proper fiscal control over a period of 13 years was to place the UK in a worse off position to weather the recession storm.

 

[UK-AL05]

It just smacks of hypocrisy. He's up there preaching about social justice while he himself has had one of the most privileged upbringings possible.

He seems to think his sudden return to the real world — parents separating, home being repossessed, etc. — somehow qualifies him to be a spokesperson for the underprivileged youth.

Labour are fabians, not really working class.

 

[RDM]

Which parts of the welfare state that helped him out are the conservatives getting rid of?