UK may face legal action over benefits test for EU nationals.
- Thread starter Danthus
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Soldato
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Some will have introduced over the term of the coming parliment.
Although, hilariously, the easiest way to comply with the Eu regulation, is to introduce a 'right to reside' test for Uk nationals also.
This might prove the best way, even if it is a box ticking affair, or an insistance that people provide a form or documentument to backup the claim they are a UK national.
Mainly the EU looks for where govt specify a difference between their own nationals and UK nationals.
There is no indication this current test has actually stopped any EU national from claiming and getting benefits, they just had an extra hurdle to rpove they had right to reside. Oddly this should be taken as given if Uk border patrol and customs were doing their job and no illegals were present.
So just make UK nationals prove they have the right to reside, and the matter is sorted.
Although, hilariously, the easiest way to comply with the Eu regulation, is to introduce a 'right to reside' test for Uk nationals also.
This might prove the best way, even if it is a box ticking affair, or an insistance that people provide a form or documentument to backup the claim they are a UK national.
Mainly the EU looks for where govt specify a difference between their own nationals and UK nationals.
There is no indication this current test has actually stopped any EU national from claiming and getting benefits, they just had an extra hurdle to rpove they had right to reside. Oddly this should be taken as given if Uk border patrol and customs were doing their job and no illegals were present.
So just make UK nationals prove they have the right to reside, and the matter is sorted.
Soldato
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This gives Cameron an opportunity to show whether he has a backbone or not... Should be interesting. I'm pretty sure he realises that most of the UK are against what the EU is suggesting...
Maybe we should pay this fine and just refuse to help bail out any European countries....
kd
Maybe we should pay this fine and just refuse to help bail out any European countries....
kd
We cannot allow EU to screw us over anymore, and the eurozone can go do one, we should not give a penny over to a system we were wise enough not to join.
Putting a strong economy like Germany to a weak one like greece amongst others, well done!
Putting a strong economy like Germany to a weak one like greece amongst others, well done!
Soldato
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I disagree with you entirely on this.
Non-dom still have a passport but no right to benefits.
Watch the amount of 'doing the double' drop, and the amount of gypos in the country will actually be verified when these steps are taken.
For the most part your passport is actually a right to reside, and would probably be taken as proof. I personally would prefer they start tightening up on it, but if they choose passport as enough verification, then so be it.
The right to reside, is demonstrated entering the country, that isn't the issue, the issue is when folks claim benefits, EU nationals are being asked for more information that Uk nationals, easiest and chpeats way out for the govt, is to ask everyone for the same forms. EU higher up's can't bitch about anything in that case.
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Why should we have to satisfy a bunch of EU bureaucrats? Our country, our rules, what is wrong with that?
Soldato
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No it isn't.
The crap we signed up to, was signed many may years ago.
It states on employment/money etc you cannot use selection criteria on EU citizens that you don't use on your own.
Thats is what they are sekking the Uk govt to apply in this case.
How stupid the law is isn't for debate, but it is one of the main founding principles of this EU we are part of.
Put simply, a chap who can't speak a word of English from Eastern Europe cannot be barred from taking a job becuase he can't speak English. BUT in your job seeking criteria if you stipulate, only those with English at a specific level to a specific amount, as in C in GCSE English or equivalent is a pre-req, then you can exclude him if he can't produce documentation to fill the criteria.
Applied to medicine and the likes, here student graduate then serve a year post-grad as a junior house officer, after this yera they are registered as fully qualified Uk doctor with no specialisation or postgrad training. Its the same in dentistry, you can't own or run or operate alone within someone else practice as an associate until you have done an equivalent year. You can only be an assistant here otherwise, thus your principle is responsible for you work. This practice owning/running stipulation is waved for EU nationals who come from countries where they don't have this VT (vocational training) year, yet it is enforced on those who come from a country which doesn't have it.
It why the NHS practices and Osais practices are packed full of spanish graduates on their first year from uni, with virtualy no experience and no ability to do root canal work (as spain don't teach it at undergrad) they are 'fully qualified' under EU law, as Spain don't do VT. Yet a similar level of grad from Germany can't work directly in the UK as an assoicate, even thought he likely has better overall training, he hasn't done his VT.
The EU law is idiodic beaureacy, but in this case, it is simplier to make benefit claimants in the Uk produce a passport or some thing to prove right to resident, than stop the ones from the EU having to produce such documentation.
Soldato
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Nothing. However joining the European Union probably wasn't the best choice if 'our country, our rules' is how Britons want their country run. Don't give me the whole 'it was a trade agreement and suddenly we're getting told to bend over by the Germans' either. Your governments since the 70s haven't all been totally retarded and could have jumped out at any point, and if Nigel Farage is to be believed, still can jump out.
Soldato
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Perhaps you have abolutely no concept of the country in which you reside, and the international agreements they've signed on your bhalf for the past 30 years. This ruling was signed up to 20 years ago.
It isn't our country, and our rules, we signed that right away years ago.
Now if you want to get back to that stage, thats a different thread altogether.
EU human rights act, was one of the more recent things signed by Tony Blair. I've yet to see one good thing reported about it since its enactment. We didn't even have to sign, we could have created our own set of human rights legisation instead.
I am not arguing that this isn't a stupid law, or that we should do something to remove ourselves from it. I am stating the cheapest and easiest way out, which frankly is what we need right now. Clarity, swift action, change one box on form, get the civil service folks to tick box when appropriate, EU can go think about something else.
No it is not. The easiest solution is to tell the EU to take a funny run. Refer it to the court if they want, tell them to take a funny run as well.
And if they attempt to enforce it, tell them we will leave the Union. They can't afford the UK to leave, because it would set a precedent that Germany is likely to follow, and once the richest two nations are out of the EU, the rest will come tumbling down.
They know this and it is time we exercised our sovereignty, follow the example of France. They do as they wish, not as they are told.
It is time our elected government made the decisions in this country, not unelected Bureaucrats in Brussels.
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Video taken from another thread but I feel it is relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmG86lWhohU&feature=player_embedded
I don't agree with everything President Farage says but this speech really hits the nail on the head.
I don't agree with everything President Farage says but this speech really hits the nail on the head.
I am not arguing that it is a stupid law. I am pointing out that we appear to to able to tell the EU swivel.
Soldato
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Ya know, i don't understand this new fangled media-led obsession with disagreeing with everything the EU says. As far as i can see, the EU are right and hold the moral high ground while the UK are the fail nation full of racists, bigots and anti-intellectual morons determined to fall first and learn it the hard way.
I honestly don't think it matters what the EU say, or where the next policy comes from, the rabble will be up in arms like the EU has just kicked their dog and raped their mothers.
Why should a chavy mother who has pumped out 7 sprogs but 'at least she is british' be more entitled to benefits than an EU citizen with a kid looking to make their way in the world and contribute to society.
I honestly don't think it matters what the EU say, or where the next policy comes from, the rabble will be up in arms like the EU has just kicked their dog and raped their mothers.
Why should a chavy mother who has pumped out 7 sprogs but 'at least she is british' be more entitled to benefits than an EU citizen with a kid looking to make their way in the world and contribute to society.
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