Cameron to urge the public "Pay off your debts"

Vonhelmet said:
I don't think you know how capitalism works. Capitalism is not contingent Joe Bloggs running up £60k on store cards.
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Capitalism relies on endless, blind consumption. If that involves Joe Bloggs running up £60k on store cards, so much the better ;)


nero120 said:
It must be hard being the leader of a country where the majority of the people are so greedy and stupid, and were riled into a feeding frenzy by the last idiotic government.
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It was of course, the stark staring mad Thatcher who so enthusiastically encouraged greed when she flogged off anything she could (e.g. Council Houses and the Utilities) in order to promote the Tory Loadsamoney ideal.

I would certainly agree that New Labour didn't do anything to discourage greed and consumerism . . . although to be fair to him, I do seem to recall Blair saying that his priorities were Education, Education, Education and I have no doubt that he worked tirelessly to counter stupidity . . . when he wasn't bending over forwards to please the Americans.
 
Life is supposed to get better all the time, i.e. 2010 better than 1910, but I earn less than I did 10 years ago and my bills are higher. Life is getting worse, not because of resources running out, but because of those pieces of paper and metal known as money!
 
kibblerok said:
It was financial institutions packaging and repackaging and then selling on these sub prime mortgages as safe investments that caused the problems.
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It was a whole mixture of things tbh... but yes that was a cause

Big complex problem, people like to hear simple reductionist causes, reality is a bit different...
 
To be fair since all this happened I believe too many people (including myself) bought now and paid later, and you most certainly do pay later.

Store cards are day light robbery, people should clear & ditch them as soon as they can or be wise to smart balance transfers.

I'm a Labour supporter and I don't blame the Consertatives with their debt reduction plan, we all need to tighten our belts now, not just the government. We need to work to help pay off debts and reform our spending.

So taking it to another level, paying off our individual debts IS important. Least of which we can begin spending again! :p

...but seriously debt is a individual problem and an government level, regardless of who caused it all. Moaning about cuts / no money is popular but the debts won't disappear it needs hitting head on.
 
I have a little amount of credit card debt on an interest free card. Do you think I'm going to pay it off just because "Dave" says I should? **** no, that's what I say.

I've got an idea Mr. Cameron: Keep your nose the **** out of my business and actually govern for once.
 
Most types of economic systems demand some type of consumption. I mean if you are going to make something, people have consume that something. Capitalism, socialism or whatever. The biggest problems with soviet communism is that 5 year plans could never plan demand and supply accurate enough, you had people producing stuff not needed, and not enough people producing stuff that is needed. Where as capitalism has no problems adjusting its self because of the pricing system.
 
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stockhausen said:
Capitalism relies on endless, blind consumption. If that involves Joe Bloggs running up £60k on store cards, so much the better ;)
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I think you have your "isms" mixed up mate ;)

"Margaret Thatcher, in a TV interview for Thames TV This Week [[1]]on Feb. 5, 1976, Prime Minister Thatcher said, "...and Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
 
The standard of living in the west is going to drop for sure. I see it as a sort of osmotic effect of the West and East standard of life equalizing due to ever increasing globalism.

Merkel is saying the same sort of thing as Cameron:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...cating-debt-crisis-endgame-have-no-clue-.html

The euro area has to resolve “that the time of living above our means is over once and for all” and pursue debt reduction that will stretch over “many years,” Merkel said in a speech to members of her Christian Democratic Union late yesterday in Magdeburg, eastern Germany.

“If we tell a country ‘We cancel half of your debt,’ that’s a great deal,” she said. “Then the next guy will immediately show up and say he wants the same.”
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Decent debate for a change (mainly)

Too many people have no financial ability, and they are also the perfect consumer, by that I mean they are easily swayed by shiny things and keeping up with the joneses.

There should IMO be compulsory basic financial training given in schools, but thats going to take 20 years to show any real impact.

I am far far from convinced that spending ourselves out of this isn't an option, consumers are going to spend on two things that arent necessity 1) physical goods, mainly produced elsewhere so other than some profit the effect for our economy is small (some VAt of course), or 2) services which have a more tangible benefit to our economy, but typically have a lot lower cost. Summary we routinely keep ****ing ourselves more and more by offshoring manufacturing.
The government and spending is typically different, most of their extra spending is targetted at helping employment, NHS (more staff), infrastructure (more builders) etc. So realistically the goverment can have a more dramatic effect, but to do that they have to increase taxes or borrow more. Ie what labour did. Which is fine, but if most of the extra money you pump into keeping employment up is spent on imported tat... well see point 1 above.

Individuals have been terribly bad (average joe public) at balancing and saving, you only have to look back to month after month of record unsecured debt 3 years or so ago. I used to work in a large office that seemed to take on 5-10 people straight from school each year and I can guaratee you they day they start they are in awe at the amount of money they get to take home and spend. Approx 6 months later they are normally skint and are asking for a pay rise as they cannot afford to live.... why? Needless tat and trying to live beyond their means
For most that never stops, give them a pay rise and they spend the extra, give them another and they spend that extra as well. They have no planning to cover something happening unexpected, job loss, wage reduction, large bill etc.

High fuel isnt a new problem, the older people here and some who have studied certain fields will know of the 70s oil crisis.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis

You cannot take anything for granted apart from the future wont be plain sailing.
 
kwerk said:
The standard of living in the west is going to drop for sure. I see it as a sort of osmotic effect of the West and East standard of life equalizing due to ever increasing globalism.
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Yeah quite likely.

Very possible for everything to stagnate a bit while prices rise and people become generally poorer - meanwhile growing middle classes in India and China will be consuming more and more....

The rest of the world can't carry on consuming at the rate Western Europe and the US currently does so we will likely take a bit of a hit as fewer resources are consumed by more people.
 
AmTechFox said:
To be fair since all this happened I believe too many people (including myself) bought now and paid later, and you most certainly do pay later.

Store cards are day light robbery, people should clear & ditch them as soon as they can or be wise to smart balance transfers.

I'm a Labour supporter and I don't blame the Consertatives with their debt reduction plan, we all need to tighten our belts now, not just the government. We need to work to help pay off debts and reform our spending.

So taking it to another level, paying off our individual debts IS important. Least of which we can begin spending again! :p

...but seriously debt is a individual problem and an government level, regardless of who caused it all. Moaning about cuts / no money is popular but the debts won't disappear it needs hitting head on.
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This is what I don't understand. Credit cards and store cards have interest rates, sometimes eye popping rates at that. It makes the lender money. DC wants us all to zero our outstanding debt, removing a vast income stream from the banking system. His stance on this tells me he knows fig all about the economy and is not to be trusted.

People defaulting on credit comes nowhere near the profit made on these loans, the interest rates applied reflect the risk and more than cover it
 
how do people let themselfs get in such stupid amounts of debt to begin with:confused: it just really confuses me??
It just boggles my mind how people can take out large loan after large loan on non-required things everyday, surely they have to understand living within there means or is it a case of keeping up with jones or self entitlement to everything?
I can truefully say I've only been in debt for £2000 for a total of 4 months, i needed a new car because mine was crashed into and started to become unreliable. I reduced my out goings (clubbing, gadgets etc) and paid off the loan in 4 months because I didn't like the idea of being in debt to someone else, isn't this the same for everyone else or is it just me?
 
Abraxaz1 said:
how do people let themselfs get in such stupid amounts of debt to begin with:confused: it just really confuses me??
It just boggles my mind how people can take out large loan after large loan on non-required things everyday, surely they have to understand living within there means or is it a case of keeping up with jones or self entitlement to everything?
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Why do people binge drink?

Why do people get morbidly obese?
 
d_brennen said:
This is what I don't understand. Credit cards and store cards have interest rates, sometimes eye popping rates at that. It makes the lender money. DC wants us all to zero our outstanding debt, removing a vast income stream from the banking system. His stance on this tells me he knows fig all about the economy and is not to be trusted.

People defaulting on credit comes nowhere near the profit made on these loans, the interest rates applied reflect the risk and more than cover it
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Personal loans, be them credit cards, or car loans it whatever, are relatively small compared to a bunch of bankers playing poker with peoples savings.
 
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