Occupy London! Here we go again!

LateX'Dog said:
Didn't the Bank of England just say they were about to print £75 billion?
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Yes - this is the second round of the QE idea. It isn't a bank bailout. I'm not saying its a great idea, I don't personally think it is, but printing money isn't using taxpayers money to bail out banks. It's inventing new money, technically. Which arguably causes more problems but there we go.

UK-AL05 said:
Most likely we paid far to much for them.
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Perhaps we did - but that doesnt change the fact the government didnt give money away, it got something in return - something that has value. Sure the value may be less than was paid but it means the total liability is less than the bailout amount.
 
The only thing that I agree about is that the government should be completely separate from corporations. I am concerned that the government are passing various pieces of legislation due to the influence of companies without any consultation from the public. There have been various meetings between lobbyists but the other side of the argument have not been allowed to come, one example is the the meeting between Ed Vaizey and some copyright lobbyists, neither the EFF or any other relevant parties were invited.
 
[TW]Fox;20317634 said:
I take it you didn't understand what I said, hence the bizarre reply which doesn't seem to be a reply to what I said.
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What didn't i understand. Taxing shuffles money around, creating money also does
that, by devaluing existing money.

If I had 100 shares in a company, and own 90%.

Then company creates 900 shares, gives them to someone else, a transfer of
value has occurred. My shares no worth less, I own less.
 
[TW]Fox;20317649 said:
Which arguably causes more problems but there we go.
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Arguably? It's not like every other time this has been tried (under a different name, perhaps) it has resulted in massively devaluing the currency to the point where nobody has the ability to buy anything... or anything :p
 
gropingmantis said:
Yes now you get it. Incresing state ownership is a move towards socialism but giving tax money to banks is not. I'm so glad you see this now.
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The state in anything is socialism.

Bonds have more legal powers than shares anyway. Shares are terrible in comparison to bonds. If
the company fails, bond holders have more power.
 
A tiny minority of people expressing their democratic right to protest, then acting all surprised when everyone ignores them in favour of the majority...

Roll out the violence next.
 
cheets64 said:
This

After WW2 and the Cold War and numerous wars, we are still at words with each other, demand countries to stop doing what they are doing or else, debt is at a high, countries in debt to each other, civil unrest around the world.

This is just the beginning, debt and credit can only support the western economy for so long, get fit, get smart, have some military training and enjoy.

We should be enjoying the greatest lifestyle of any era on earth, all I know is I have another 50/60 years I am going to enjoy it no matter what I have to do. Weather it be world war, civil unrest or mundane work.
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The problem is greed is human nature. In order for society to work effectively there needs to be something or someone with power. Previously this was "God" and religious leaders or Kings/Queens and now it is Governments. Power will always lead to those who wish for more power and prevent others from taking it. By definition, greed. Humans are competitive. Not much you can do about that.
 
I think much of the reason behind these protests is that the information age has given people both the ability to organise things and the belief that they actually understand things, irrespective of whether they actually do or not.

I wonder what proportion of those on the streets right now can explain how the bank bailout process actually worked and what the net result to the taxpayer was? Not that I'm saying everyone SHOULD know these things, but if you are going to protest about something it surely makes sense to educate yourself about it first, no? It amazes me the sheer amount of people who honestly think the banks were simply given a pot of free money for splurgle on lulz.
 
I will say something, the protests wont matter anyway, it is good that people are atleast doing something like this but its pointless.

If the EURO fails and that is highly likely (the biggest economy on the planet in certain respects falls with it) the after effect will be devastating to the entire economy of the planet, now it wont be a collapse as such, humans arent that much of a moronic species, a rebuild of the systems and so on wont really be hard, but lessons must be taught the hard way sometimes, especially when people no longer know whats going on.

Let the bad times role. :cool:
 
UK-AL05 said:
Then company creates 900 shares, gives them to someone else, a transfer of
value has occurred. My shares no worth less, I own less.
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Your shares are worth less.

A company's market capitalisation doesn't technically change when they issue shares unless new information has been introduced or investors perceptions of the company changes as a result of the share issue.
 
[TW]Fox;20317706 said:
I think much of the reason behind these protests is that the information age has given people both the ability to organise things and the belief that they actually understand things, irrespective of whether they actually do or not.

I wonder what proportion of those on the streets right now can explain how the bank bailout process actually worked and what the net result to the taxpayer was? Not that I'm saying everyone SHOULD know these things, but if you are going to protest about something it surely makes sense to educate yourself about it first, no? It amazes me the sheer amount of people who honestly think the banks were simply given a pot of free money for splurgle on lulz.
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Of course, it did leave us in a worse position and we have already sold a large portion of these shares for a heck of a lot less than 'we' bought them for. The only 'good' thing it served to do is to keep this broken system limping on for a bit longer.
 
Kemik said:
Your shares are worth less.

A company's market capitalisation doesn't technically change when they issue shares unless new information has been introduced or investors perceptions of the company changes as a result of the share issue.
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Yes exactly, the value of my worth has gone down someone elses has gone up.
When I tax, the value of my worth has gone down and someone else has gone up.


Same thing different method. Taking shares, or creating shares involves taking value from someone else, and giving to someone else.

Same with money.
 
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UK-AL05 said:
Yes exactly, the value of my worth has gone down someone elses has gone up.
When I tax, the value of my worth has gone down and someone else has gone up.


Same thing different method.
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Not exactly. I tend to think we get more back than we put in tax-wise. I mean the amount of money I have recieved through my education and healthcare and having roads and being safe and all those other good things costs waaaaaaaaaaay more than I have done or will ever contribute thorugh taxes.
 
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