Occupy London! Here we go again!

PermaBanned said:
Of course they are. They're the 99% who earn less than the 1%. It's not a choice.
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What a meaningless and stupid number. We are all the 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% who earn less than Bill Gates, so what?

They imply they are the majority - they are not a majority in the views they hold.
 
maustin said:
With a very heavy caveat that things could go south very quickly and rapidly spiral out of control and your reward would be nowhere to be found and all your effort would be for nothing.
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Of course an asteroid might crash into Europe, or I may get killed in the next hour, or we enter another world war, or any number of daft scenarios of little consequence to the reality that if you work, you are rewarded, if you do not, you are not.

If everyone went around with "why bother, everything might go wrong" kinds of attitudes then there would be no progress. It is this attitude that generally separates the haves from the have nots, and not the system.
 
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[TW]Fox;20330625 said:
What a meaningless and stupid number. We are all the 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% who earn less than Bill Gates, so what?

They imply they are the majority - they are not a majority in the views they hold.
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Dude, you're debating a subject with a minor. My left big toenail has more life experience.
 
[TW]Fox;20330625 said:
What a meaningless and stupid number. We are all the 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% who earn less than Bill Gates, so what?

They imply they are the majority - they are not a majority in the views they hold.
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What views are they? That there's a problem with the world that can and should be fixed? I think you may be disappointed to learn that to some extent those views are held by the vast majority of human beings.
 
PermaBanned said:
What views are they? That there's a problem with the world that can and should be fixed? I think you may be disappointed to learn that to some extent those views are held by the vast majority of human beings.
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Not to the extend that the very insignificant amount of protesters want to imply. The majority of people in this country are quite happy with capitalism and democracy, they simply want a little more accountability and equality, nothing more.

They certainly do not want some oppressive marxist system that you advocate.
 
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Castiel said:
Not to the extend that the very insignificant amount of protesters want to imply. The majority of people in this country are quite happy with capitalism and democracy, they simply want a little more accountability and equality, nothing more.

They certainly do not want some oppressive marxist system that you advocate.
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I don't speak for the '99%'. A lot of people at the occupations share exactly those views.
 
ng93 said:
If I understand this correctly they're protesting against the current system?

That's fair enough (so long as it doesn't turn violent anyway). But what alternative system do they propose?
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not much

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/17/occupy-london-stock-exchange-occupylsx

This is the text of a statement issued by #occupylsx (Occupy London) on 16 October 2011

At today's assembly of over 500 people on the steps of St Paul's, #occupylsx collectively agreed the initial statement below. Please note, like all forms of direct democracy, the statement will always be a work in progress.

1 The current system is unsustainable. It is undemocratic and unjust. We need alternatives; this is where we work towards them.

2 We are of all ethnicities, backgrounds, genders, generations, sexualities, dis/abilities and faiths. We stand together with occupations all over the world.

3 We refuse to pay for the banks' crisis.

4 We do not accept the cuts as either necessary or inevitable. We demand an end to global tax injustice and our democracy representing corporations instead of the people.

5 We want regulators to be genuinely independent of the industries they regulate.

6 We support the strike on 30 November and the student action on 9 November, and actions to defend our health services, welfare, education and employment, and to stop wars and arms dealing.

7 We want structural change towards authentic global equality. The world's resources must go towards caring for people and the planet, not the military, corporate profits or the rich.

8 We stand in solidarity with the global oppressed and we call for an end to the actions of our government and others in causing this oppression.

9 This is what democracy looks like. Come and join us!
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RDM said:
As a matter of interest, if our system is so terrible, why is it that we have the highest standard of living we have ever had in the history of humanity?
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From basically enslaving Chinese labour and African resources and borrowing tons of money from our grand kids?

The standard of living is going equalize between us though. You can't get away with it forever, eventually you have to start producing something useful.

My prediction is most people in this thread will be working in a factory in 20 years, living 3 generations to a house/flat, no cars, no foreign holidays, no restaurant meals, no designer clothes, taxed out the ****.

Have to pay the piper eventually.
 
PermaBanned said:
What views are they? That there's a problem with the world that can and should be fixed?
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Everybody knows that - we don't need all the people who can't succeed at job interviews to go on a camping holiday to point it out whilst pretending they are actually doing something at the same time as trying desperately to convince themselves none of the situation they find themselves in is anything to do with choices they made themselves and they can simply blame it all on somebody else.

You are right in that the vast majority of human beings realise there is currently an issue. Therefore the purpose of the 'occupy' thing is... what?
 
kwerk said:
From basically enslaving Chinese labour and African resources and borrowing tons of money from our grand kids?

The standard of living is going equalize between us though. You can't get away with it forever, eventually you have to start producing something useful.

My prediction is most people in this thread will be working in a factory in 20 years, living 3 generations to a house/flat, no cars, no foreign holidays, no restaurant meals, no designer clothes, taxed out the ****.

Have to pay the piper eventually.
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Want to place a wager on that?
 
PermaBanned said:
I don't speak for the '99%'. A lot of people at the occupations share exactly those views.
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You stated that the vast majority of human beings share their views. They don't.

100% of the people at the protest can have those views, however they are still not 99% of the people in the UK. They are statistically insignificant, that I am afraid is a fact you will have to get used to.
 
PermaBanned said:
Of course they are. They're the 99% who earn less than the 1%. It's not a choice.



You believe wrongly.
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The how old are you? You have a naive attitude of someone very young. Practically every comment you have made lacks a basis in reality with any down to earth suggestions about what changes should be made, or what the real issues are.

You have a point of view you are entitled to. You feel strongly that there is something amiss in the world. That is great, most people have the same sentiments, just not to your extreme and ungrounded extent.

I remember how Naive I was when I was 18-20. Heck, Even a few years ago when I was 25 I still had much less of a comprehension of the real world and the real problems and any real solutions. Now I know that I will never fully understand or be able to do propose meaningful alternatives. That is what growing up is about, coming to terms with yourself.
 
Castiel said:
Not to the extend that the very insignificant amount of protesters want to imply. The majority of people in this country are quite happy with capitalism and democracy, they simply want a little more accountability and equality, nothing more.

They certainly do not want some oppressive marxist system that you advocate.
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+1
A very sound response that I 100% agree with.
 
maustin said:
Want to place a wager on that?
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A drop in the quality of life over the next few decades is a given. All that stuff you have, the houses, cars, clothes, computers - it has to be paid for with an actual trade on labour and resources.

So far it has been paid for on promises of labour and resources, in other words debt... leverage. Then each one of those promises has been used as if it is real wealth and leveraged in to more promises. A giant pyramid scheme of promises which people regard as wealth. One day those promises get called in by the creditor.

There are 2 ways it can end:

A. We actually do all the work that has been promised which means working like a slave with the below the standard of living I just described. Debt slavery. Your labour has become massively cheaper.

B. We allow it all to de-leverage (by defaulting) and the people that loaned actual assets against these useless promises take the hit for their stupidity (instead of bailouts). This would cause severe deflation, suddenly nobody can get a loan because very few banks have actual capital instead of promises of capital. You house is now worth £20,000, you company can't get money to pay your wage, etc etc. The only thing the government can do in that case is print money and cause inflation which also makes your labour massively cheaper!!

Either way the quality of life is going to drop. The second option has a better long term outcome though. Massive amounts of "wealth" are going to evaporate.

Someone somewhere has to do the actual labour and produce something. Right now it's Chinese peasants. One day it will have to be us.

Watch what happens in Greece and Italy because it will happen in the UK too.

The current standard of living is a FANTASY.
 
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