Downloading TV Shows.

[[TW]Fox]

You watching the show in the UK doesnt count towards viewing figures which means you dont contribute towards ad revenue.

Neither does me watching it in my hotel room, given viewing figures are estimated and nobody knows I watched it.

 

[Glaucus]

You might of missed it as it was an edit.

But power. "fixed" cost similar to tv shows.
X-amount is produced at anyone time and most of the time more than required. So a lot goes to waste. So can you morally get power for free?
If you didn't use it, they wouldn't get paid.
It would be going to waste anyway, so they still don't get paid.

 

[[TW]Fox]

You might of missed it as it was an edit.

But power. "fixed" cost similar to tv shows.
X-amount is produced at anyone time and most of the time more than required. So a lot goes to waste. So can you morally get power for free?
If you didn't use it, they wouldn't get paid.
It would be going to waste anyway, so they still don't get paid.

Completely different. If I want power, it is entirely possible for me to get some right now by paying for it.

We are talking about people who are quite prepared to pay for something but are simply unable to do so. In these circumstances I can't get that bothered about the fact they might torrent it instead. It's hardly like torrenting a film they could, if they wished, pay to see, or torrenting a game they could, if they wished, purchase and play.

And no, it's not the same as sneaking into a sold out concert which I've no doubt will be your next badly worded (might of? Seriously?) comeback

 

[Freakbro]

Watching shows at US pace isnt a legal right and you arent entitled to watch it just because you feel left out that the UK is behind.

The show creators get money from the channels who broadcast their TV shows, and the channels who have forked out millions for the rights recoup that by showing adverts.

You watching the show in the UK doesnt count towards viewing figures which means you dont contribute towards ad revenue.

But I never watch the adverts when they are on in the UK either. (and no it's not just being pedantic) I will either turn over or FF as I generally record stuff on the Sky box and watch later.

The case lately is that the UK viewing is 1 week after the US viewing. So if they really want to stop the dling, then have the same world wide release date.

I pay exactly the same amount of money to Sky whether I watch it in the Uk or dl the US version.

 

[Skillmister]

Morally i don't see the problem with downloading something you could have watched on the TV legally after it airs. Something that you don't have the ability to watch legally is another matter and let's not go there

 

[Glaucus]

How's it different.
You said yourself you have no right to it anyway.
Can get both for free with no detriment to the producer.

Who's getting bothered about it, that's not the discussion. Op opened with legal and it's moved onto moral. Not wether we should get up in arms about it.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Please go back and read my posts again. Specifically the one where I have stated there is little point debating the legal position.

People are discussing this from a moral standpoint, not a legal standpoint.

Then there isn't point even talking about it.

What is moral to you is immoral to another. Subjective. No strict right and wrong. Hence the separation of church and state. Hence the saying justice is blind.

 

[[TW]Fox]

How's it different.
You said yourself you have no right to it anyway.
Can get both for free with no detriment to the producer.

Because I'm talking about morals and it is my opinion that to get something for free which you should pay for is wrong.

Who's getting bothered about it, that's not the discussion.

I was expressing my opinion - that morally its not a big deal. I'm not disputing the legal angle at all, because you can't debate fact.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Then there isn't point even talking about it

Yes there is - opinion by its very nature is open to debate. Thats the whole point in debate - a clash of subjective views. If there was no subjectivity there would be nothing to disagree on and thus no debate! Fact is different. There is more point debating the moral standpoint than the factual standpoint!

A debate can change opinion but it cannot change fact. Who knows, Acidhill may change my mind, I might change his - thats the point in a debate.

 

[Glaucus]

Right well, in that case as Reymound says. It's pointless discussing. If you can't even apply the same morals to similar circumstances.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Right well, in that case as Reymound says.

ARgghghgh I'm not usually a grammar nazi but PLEASE put a bit more effort into your posts, his name is correctly spelt beside every post he makes! You often hold your own really well in a debate, argue your point in a decent enough fashion but usually let it down with 'could have' and sentences that make little sense etc

</rant>

 

[Freakbro]

The issue here is that the TV producers get their money from the stations who buy the rights to broadcast the show.

Then the stations get their money from subscriptions and advertising.

So, if I dl the US version but am still paying my UK Sky/Virgin subscription I am not taking any money away from the TV producers.

So, the only immediate effect I could be having is on advertising revenues to the TV stations. But, since I guess most of that is based on subscription numbers and highly estimated viewing figures, I can't see how that would be effected much either. As seemingly proved by the huge profits Sky etc make.

Where I could be taking money away from them is if I keep the content after viewing, as that could detract from future Box Set DVD sales, which I assume the producers get their cut from. Then again, most people buy these as keep sakes because they liked the series so much they want the physical product, so I wonder how much that impacts either.

They have been banging the same old drum that piracy will kill the music/film/game industry since any of these industries began...and they still seem to be doing pretty well for themselves.

 

[grandmaster]

what if i dont keep the shows?
what if i change channel every advert?
if i change channel, i am in effect avoiding the ads arent i?

 

[Freakbro]

what if i change channel every advert?
if i change channel, i am in effect avoiding the ads arent i?

This is what I do, I tend to minimise myself from exposure to advertising as much as possible...

Though from a broadcasting revenue making point of view, that is irrelevant as they will charge the advertisers based on Subscription numbers and Estimated viewing figures. How many are actually watching it is pretty much unknown and irrelevant.

 

[grandmaster]

so we can cancel out the argument that ads count!

 

[visibleman]

Whilst legally its a rather grey area, morally I think there is a world of difference between pirating paid content and pirating content thats available on free to air television in other parts of the world.

I'm assuming by paid content you mean PPV? Because what you're suggesting is that it's morally acceptable to download a film, more so blockbuster type films, as they will be freely available on FTA TV (granted at some point in the future).

Either way it's reasonably black and white regarding copyright laws in the UK. Bottom line, it's illegal.

 

[sHo0sH]

TV shows are the only thing I download now, the way I see it, it is broadcast anyway and I pay a license fee so why not.

It might not be correct in the eye of the law, but I can sleep at night

 

[flibbage0]

I'm assuming by paid content you mean PPV? Because what you're suggesting is that it's morally acceptable to download a film, more so blockbuster type films, as they will be freely available on FTA TV (granted at some point in the future).

Either way it's reasonably black and white regarding copyright laws in the UK. Bottom line, it's illegal.

Good point.

Also there is an issue about "I pay for license/sky/virgin and the show has already been aired so why can't I legally download it."

Well the thing is that some people won't have a license/sky/virgin and therefore when it comes to downloading of torrents or file hosting websites they can't tell if you pay for sky/virgin media.

Also they're not going to check everyone to see if they have relevant subscriptions and etc.

 

[Things change I've changed]

I download American TV shows, always have and always will, the day all these shows are available on a netflix like service in the UK then I'll be the first to sign up for it, but being that I'm a uk resident I don't see what harm I'm doing by downloading these shows, for me it's about convenience, If want to watch an episode of Dexter, it's down via torrent in 10mins and no advertisements, and I can watch when I want.

Gab Newl from Valve made a good point, a lot of people were pirating games because it's was easier and more convenient than buying legally, he said that companies needed to offer similar services, make it easy for consumers to access their favourite content and they will part with their cash, hence Steam being as popular as it is today, I hear of many pirates that never used to pay for PC games now exclusively use steam, these service providers need to wise up, they are still lagging behind in many countries, people are willing to pay for this content but their is so much bureaucracy involved in getting it to us.

 

[grandmaster]

^^
You cant say theres no harm in downloading! Thats just wrong the way you do it.