Line attenuation gone through the roof, switched to Sky

Azza · 19 Oct 2011 at 10:45

Sky got activated yesterday but I've already ran into some problems.

Here are the stats from a few years a go when we were on Tiscali ADSL Max (8Mbps)

Upstream Noise Margin

noise margin upstream: 19 db
output power downstream: 12 db
attenuation upstream: 13 db

Click to expand...

Downstream Noise Margin

noise margin downstream: 6 db
output power upstream: 20 db
attenuation downstream: 23 db

Click to expand...

And these are from yesterday when the Sky got activated. It's pretty much the same today as well.

Here is my laptop plugged straight into the router, which is connected straight into the test socket along with phone & HD box.

Stats

This is with just the router plugged in.

Not much difference at all in the stats.

Stats

Now I've tried with the new filters that came with the Sky router and the old one that those Tiscali results where done on and they're pretty much the same.

I know it's still within the testing period and DLM probably hasn't started yet, but surely my line attenuation can not go that high if it was once that low on the Tiscali connection. We're pretty close to the exchange ~200m as the crow flies (I know the actual wire length will be longer).

This just confuses me! Something is surely wrong with the line along the way? We've been having problems with the phone line since it became active and there is a bit of noise when you're ringing some one.

PistolPete · 19 Oct 2011 at 10:55

Your speeds are consistent with your sync speed, but something there is clearly up.

Noise on the voice side is the clue, if you can hear the noise then so can the router....and they dont like noise. You need to call BT (or whoever you pay the voice line rental to) and get that sorted, it's possible if you get that fixed that the problem with your sync speed will go away.

I've got a long line with my router report 56.5dB attenuation (1.8KM ATCF to the exchange but on a new estate on the outskirts of town so the line routing is anyones guess!) and I still sync at around 4.5Mb with a 6dB margin.

EDIT: "which is connected straight into the test socket along with phone & HD box".
Have you plugged the router, and the router alone, into the test socket??

Tealc · 19 Oct 2011 at 11:06

Even if we assume that your attenuation on the downstream is 38 dB as reported by the modem then you should be getting better connection speed to noise margin ratios than that.

A lot can happen in a couple of years though. Maybe there's a fault on your line which you never noticed on ADSL but is becoming more evident on ADSL2+ as it uses higher frequencies.

Looking at your current stats I'd say you will be about the best you can get given your current noise ratio. Sky will set around a 7 dB noise ratio as default.

If you have noise on the line and it is there when you plug a wired phone directly into the test socket then you should contact BT or Sky, depending on who is the provider and get them to check the line out. The Engineer who came out to look at my line, tells me that noise can be indicative of water on the line or a fault with the equipment at the exchange. Provided the noise is clear on the line when only the wired phone is connected (and it's not the wired phone making the noise) then they won't charge you for the callout.

I had noise on my line intermittently and when it came along my noise ratio plummeted to 0 and I got a disconnection.

Since they did a couple of jobs on the line I've dropped 2 or 3 dB in attenuation despite them saying nothing was wrong and it's now solid.

Sky boxes have been known to throw noise into the line and it is for that reason why I never have one connected. Never had a call top reconnect it either. Try removing all devices from the line and just plug the router into the test socket which hides behind the master socket cover, this removes any homemade spurs from the line as well.

Azza · 19 Oct 2011 at 11:14

It's all with Sky now. I'll give them a ring tomorrow or later on this evening if I'm back home in time.

When my Dad rang up at the weekend about the phone the girl said she was seeing something in her testing and my Dad said as long as it doesn't interfere with the broadband when it gets done then he doesn't mind about a bit of noise on the phone. We've had problems with the phone since it's been activated, not being able to receive incoming calls etc, Sky found faults there end... sent an engineer out on Friday I think it was but he couldn't find anything, then rang Sky again and they changed something and the phone worked for a bit. Since the broadband got activated we haven't had any problems with incoming calls though.

The second lot are with just the router plugged into the test socket. I've edited the post to bold the text above them stats. As you can see it's pretty much the same. Which makes me think there is a problem with the line, I know that it may increase a bit when changing to ADSL2+ but surely not that much?

Azza · 19 Oct 2011 at 11:34

Well my Dad has just told me something interesting which he's forgot to mention before... the phone line coming out of the house was cut by a builder doing the roof years a go and has only been attached together using some electrical tape. That could be an explanation for a lot of things!

I've just checked with the cordless phones and a corded phone and there is a lot of noise on the line when they are plugged in on their own. More than yesterday I think as well.

mp260767 · 19 Oct 2011 at 11:40

Azza said:
Well my Dad has just told me something interesting which he's forgot to mention before... the phone line coming out of the house was cut by a builder doing the roof years a go and has only been attached together using some electrical tape. That could be an explanation for a lot of things!

ouch, that will cost you

, had similar when the next door neighbour got chainsaw happy when he was clearing his trees, think the bill from Bt was £192 ish to fix it.

know its all done now but ya dad should have got the builder to get it fixed

.

Azza · 19 Oct 2011 at 12:00

Indeed, since its held up this long it might be okay but will have to check it out later or tomorrow. But I'll ring Sky about the noise on the line first and see if that can get sorted.

Uther · 19 Oct 2011 at 14:45

Surely you should have had the problems before though, and not just because sky took over the line.

Nightglow · 19 Oct 2011 at 14:54

Not necessarily Uther, might just be a coincidence, had the same happen to me when I changed over to Be.

BT traced the fault back to a corroded aluminum cable which had rotted away in the cabinet in the road, but vehicles passing by gave just enough vibration to give an intermittent connection.

Azza · 19 Oct 2011 at 14:55

Uther said:
Surely you should have had the problems before though, and not just because sky took over the line.

Yeah that's what I'm thinking. Probably down to them some where, been posting on their help forum and the guy said I should ring so I'll do that when I get in.

Tealc · 19 Oct 2011 at 16:20

If the cable is just bodged together with electrical tape you'd get water ingress over time. Seeing as it's been damaged by a builder I'd expect BT Openreach to charge for that repair so be careful. I might be tempted to get up there and have a look and inspect the join for integrity if it's possible.

Azza · 19 Oct 2011 at 16:42

On the phone to Sky now...because the accounts had a lot of problems recently they put it straight through as priority... yet it's taken me longer than it normally would to talk to some one in the technical department. :confused:

Will ask about the noise on the line first and then the high line attenuation. Stats and speeds are the same as yesterday.

Pressing the bundle of wires / electrical tape outside causes a ton of noise down the line and knocked my BB out for a bit, until I had a squeeze on it again. It's high up in the corner of a porch type area, so it won't have gotten too wet, but it is possible. Won't mention that just yet since it seems to been okay in the past.

Nightglow · 19 Oct 2011 at 16:44

Deny any knowledge of the the repair, been like that for a long time if BT bod asks.

Azza · 19 Oct 2011 at 16:47

Ohhhh myyy lorddddd. Every other time I've rang up it's been a Scottish person who's been really helpful. This time it's an Indian sounding lady who's soooooo slowwwwwwww at talking.

*No racism*

Azza · 19 Oct 2011 at 17:05

Right the woman has found a fault doing one test and while doing another she's found a major fault. Which indicates that there is a problem close to the property. Said she will escalate it for an Openreach engineer to come out and that any external problem wouldn't be chargeable. So something at the exchange or what ever and internal issue could be subjected to a charge. £99 and £60 odd per hour! :eek:

Now when the Openreach guy does come round should we just play dumb about the line outside the house and say we've never noticed it? Since we didn't notice anything out of the ordinary while with Tiscali.

Azza · 19 Oct 2011 at 17:08

She's now going to check out the speed and this line attenuation. She said it could be down to the fault (which let's be honest between us it probably is) but she said she will do a speed test etc any way.

Azza · 19 Oct 2011 at 17:30

DLM hasn't started yet on my line, she said they were trying various settings a profiles but couldn't get any more than 1 mbps. But she said my line should be capable of a lot more (obviously!) Anything higher it just kept dropping out.

She said because of the fault on the line they can't really do anything more about this line attenuation problem until that fault is sorted out. Once that has been sorted and if the broadband speed doesn't increase / line attenuation is still this high then they will raise it with CST to look into it.

Azza · 19 Oct 2011 at 17:33

Oh my godddd!!!! THERE IS NO ****ING COMMUNICATION IN THIS HOUSE!!!! :mad:

My Mum just asked me "Did you tell them about the house having 2 phone lines coming from it".

"Errrr.... what the hell on you on about?!"

"When the guy come out at the weekend he told your Dad there was 2 lines coming from the house into the exchange"

*sigh* :mad:

Edit--------->

Spoke to my Dad... 2 connections for the house at the exchange.

Uther · 19 Oct 2011 at 18:03

Azza said:
Said she will escalate it for an Openreach engineer to come out and that any external problem wouldn't be chargeable. So something at the exchange or what ever and internal issue could be subjected to a charge. £99 and £60 odd per hour!

.

I don't think you will be liable for any faults at the exchange.

Swifty55 · 19 Oct 2011 at 18:05

2 lines? Is the other one active? If so, check that for noise.

Yes, play dumb. If he asks just say you had the roof done a few years ago or just deny it all.