Dale Farm Cleared Tomorrow?

[Glaucus]

They were offered bricks and mortar and another option. They want a field.
Even that shouldn't have been offered. If the get something for free other will want it for free. This is no different to hostages but rather than people it's land. Demands should not be met. If they are met, then sod it. I'll go chain myself somewhere and demand a free house.

 

[fez]

They were offered bricks and mortar and another option. They want a field.
Even that shouldn't if been offered. If the get something for free other will want it for free. This is no different to hostages but rather than people it land. Demands should not be met. If they are met, then sod it. I'll go chain myself somewhere and demand a free house.

Exactly. You cannot give people what they want just because they are being difficult and it would be more cost effective to "pay them off" as it were.

I don't like to say it but the Chinese should be brought in on this one.

 

[Tummy]

Why offer travellers bricks? I'm not an expert but I always thought they were caravans and would set up sort of little villages.

What was the other option? Were they offered an alternate place to move to?

 

[Radiation]

Pretty sure I would have asked that sort of question when I was 5 and bugging my dad about something. Based on the fact that you are not 5 I have to concede that no-one is this idiotic naturally so you are just doing this for a rise.

Heh, this is probably taking it a bit far but we must question things and push it to the limit sometimes to make a point, people make use of extreme examples all the time in discussions.

I wonder if instead of wasting all these millions on moving them they might have been better off paying them to move, everyone wins then, the gov gets its petty control and the travellers can afford to buy homes or better vehicles.

 

[griffy]

You're a troll.

No he's a moron!

 

[Nutella33]

I don't want to be drawn in to this but I was under the impression that the word "negotiations" wasn't exactly what happened.

Anyone got any sources (that aren't **** newspapers) about the offers put on the table?

Again, I'm not picking a side so keep the abuse to a low, I don't want this to be *** for tat, I want it to be a bit more intelligent.

What deals were put on the table? What was offered?
What was the reason they were rejected? Unsuitable?

They've spent ~£12 million on removing these people, of which they are an ethnic minority, doesn't look too good to the International community.

I'm sure if they've had ~10 years, ~£12 million they could have surely come to a better conclusion then this?

Also, I've only had the news on very briefly (I'm on holiday in Portmeirion at the minute) but most of the protestors didn't seem to be travellers?

Again, no stupid derogatory replies, just a nice reply helping me understand as I've paid little attention to this.

other land and available housing has been offered. they refused on the grounds of "i dont want to".

its taken 10 years and 12million to get rid of them because all other options including obeying the law in the case of the travellers have been exhausted. that is why its "come to this". this is a case of last resort for the council.

being a ethnic minority, you still need to obey the laws of the country you live in. i dont believe any of the international community would be batting a eyelid, if anything to let it last 10 years and cost so much i imagine we look quite weak. france shut 51 illegal camps and deported thousands in the space of a year recently.

and no, the protesters are idiots from london jumping on a cause without thinking about it logically and declaring that it is ethnic cleansing because they dont have anything better to do.

I wonder if instead of wasting all these millions on moving them they might have been better off paying them it to move, everyone wins then, the gov gets its petty control and the travellers can afford to buy homes or better vehicles.

read the thread. that has been answered despite how obviously stupid the question is.

 

[Glaucus]

Why offer travellers bricks? I'm not an expert but I always thought they were caravans and would set up sort of little villages.

What was the other option? Were they offered an alternate place to move to?

It's still a place to live and is well above the call of duty. Why does it matter what was offered. Nothing needs to be offered.

 

[griffy]

Don't be silly, if you don't have a counter argument fair enough but calling someone a troll for a perfectly reasonable post could be considering a personal attack, which is against forum rules.

Your a troll AND a moron. Its all been through the courts. Watch they news if you cant read a newspaper

 

[Tummy]

It's still a place to live and is well above the call of duty. Why does it matter what was offered. Nothing needs to be offered.

It's not really a negotiation if you offer something, it's rejected them you start legal proceedings to remove them?

It should matter, as if the offer was unreasonable and unfair then that's what it is.

I take the point about levels of crime being raised in the area, and the unpleasing views of the site, but still.

 

[Radiation]

other land and available housing has been offered. they refused on the grounds of "i dont want to".

its taken 10 years and 12million to get rid of them because all other options including obeying the law in the case of the travellers have been exhausted. that is why its "come to this". this is a case of last resort for the council.

Im sure they would have moved if each family was offered a part of that 12 million instead.

 

[Tibbz2]

Pathetic how people can actually have a go at the police for using tazers on the idiots...

Oh it's ok that the no-lived pricks can throw bricks and try to kill the police - BUT GIVING THEM AN ELECTRIC SHOCK TO PROTECT THEMSELVES!!? THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE OMGWTF! :O

Some people have no common sense.

 

[Hyburnate]

Not reading through 30 pages, but people saying "This is our property, Dale Farm is our home so get off" no its not your ****ing property? Do you pay taxes? No? So get the **** off and stay out of our ****ing country. Happy Days. Oh btw, why don't we just like get everyone out of Northern Island and Nuke Ireland ;D

 

[Glaucus]

It's not really a negotiation if you offer something, it's rejected them you start legal proceedings to remove them?

It should matter, as if the offer was unreasonable and unfair then that's what it is.

I take the point about levels of crime being raised in the area, and the unpleasing views of the site, but still.

The council srched for suitable and available land, not only in there county. But other counties as well. Several options were offered, all were rejected. Councils can't pull suitable land out of their behinds. The offers were reasonable, far more than reasonable. The councils went out of their way to accommodate them.

And I'm pretty sure the over offer was a traveling site. They would have refused any offer. They had no intention of going anywhere.

 

[Hyburnate]

Im sure they would have moved if each family was offered a part of that 12 million instead.

But if they were kept out of there in the first place, taxes wouldn't have had to go up to cover that 12 million? WHY SHOULD OUR TAXES, OUR HARD WORKING PEOPLE, HAVE TO PAY TO GET PEOPLE OUT OF OUR COUNTRY. </rage>

 

[fez]

It's not really a negotiation if you offer something, it's rejected them you start legal proceedings to remove them?

It should matter, as if the offer was unreasonable and unfair then that's what it is.

I take the point about levels of crime being raised in the area, and the unpleasing views of the site, but still.

Its even less of a negotiation when one party has nothing to offer and no leg to stand on. They should have just been evicted and told to **** ***.

 

[Tibbz2]

Not reading through 30 pages, but people saying "This is our property, Dale Farm is our home so get off" no its not your ****ing property? Do you pay taxes? No? So get the **** off and stay out of our ****ing country. Happy Days. Oh btw, why don't we just like get everyone out of Northern Island and Nuke Ireland ;D

Haha yes.

 

[Nutella33]

Im sure they would have moved if each family was offered a part of that 12 million instead.

why would the state pay someone for breaking the law? do you expect a lottery ticket if you punch a policeman? how about instead of spending money fighting a legal action for 10 years on a basic planning permission legality that was clear as soon as the case was brought up, they had just bought some new land?

how old are you?

 

[Tummy]

other land and available housing has been offered. they refused on the grounds of "i dont want to".

its taken 10 years and 12million to get rid of them because all other options including obeying the law in the case of the travellers have been exhausted. that is why its "come to this". this is a case of last resort for the council.

being a ethnic minority, you still need to obey the laws of the country you live in. i dont believe any of the international community would be batting a eyelid, if anything to let it last 10 years and cost so much i imagine we look quite weak. france shut 51 illegal camps and deported thousands in the space of a year recently.

and no, the protesters are idiots from london jumping on a cause without thinking about it logically and declaring that it is ethnic cleansing.


read the thread. that has been answered despite how obviously stupid the question is.

I'm not actually sure the International community would look upon the removal of an ethnic minority by force as something positive.

There have been examples of these things happening all over the World and the International press has not taken too kindly to the governments reaction. That however is a different discussion

I in part have sympathy for the travellers if indeed they weren't offered a suitable option, I have sympathy for the local people because of the detrimental effect the travellers can have on a community (having had two very brief experiences of travellers moving in not too far away, I know how utterly horrible it is) and I have sympathy for the Police / Government having to spend so much time, money and effort on fixing the problem. I'm not really on anyones side in this.

What I'm a bit about is the activists who feel the need to come in and chain themselves to things and be militant, christ. I voted to march agains the cuts, peacefully. I'd do it again in a heartbeat, (well maybe not after the horrible scenes I was dragged into) I'd certainly stand up for my beliefs but I'd not travel half way round the country it seems to just have a pop at the police, which is what has appeared to happen here.

Again, I've not seen much of the coverage, but what I have seen didn't involve many travellers.

 

[Glaucus]

Im sure they would have moved if each family was offered a part of that 12 million instead.

I can't see any issues with that. Oh wait, other than setting a prececedent and other people following just to extort money. These cases are much better to go through the court system. Now next time someone tries it there is much stronger legal case for eviction to happen far sooner and easier.

How are they an ethnic minority? I think the international community thinks we are stupid for taking 10years. Just look at how other countries deal with eviction.

This isn't a race card or a minority card, to even suggest that is stupid. It's planning permission and occupying an illegal site.

 

[ringo747]

Im sure they would HAVE moved if each family was offered a part of that 12 million instead.

Corrected