What has happened to America?

Soldato
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NEW YORK — A federal judge declined Wednesday to find the CIA in contempt for destroying videotapes of Sept. 11 detainee interrogations, saying to do so would serve no beneficial purpose and the CIA had put in place new procedures to prevent such destruction from happening again.

U.S. District Judge Alvin Hellerstein said in a written ruling that the CIA has since remedied its failure to produce videotapes in response to requests by the American Civil Liberties Union. He wrote that the people processing the ACLU's Freedom of Information Act request may not have been aware of the videotapes' existence before they were destroyed.

The government has acknowledged destroying 92 videotapes, including those containing interrogations of a high-level al-Qaida lieutenant who claimed he suffered physical and mental torture at the hands of the CIA. The tapes were destroyed in 2005.

In January, the judge said a contempt finding would be impractical and told the CIA to investigate itself and report how it will prevent employees from destroying information in the future. On Wednesday, he noted that the CIA adopted two new policies in August regarding document preservation to ensure that destruction of any documents outside of routine management of CIA materials will not occur without a review by lawyers to ensure they are preserved for legal proceedings or congressional oversight activity.

The judge said the CIA's new protocols would have "a remedial and deterrent effect should a CIA official think to destroy documents."

"The protocols should lead to better communication and more complete written records within the agency and across the government when an issue of document destruction or retention arises within the agency," he said. "The CIA's new protocols should lead to greater accountability within the agency and prevent another episode like the videotapes' destruction."

Alexander Abdo, staff attorney with the ACLU National Security Project, wrote the ACLU was "profoundly disappointed by the court's unwillingness to label as contempt what it describes as the CIA's 'dereliction.'"

"We also strongly disagree with the court's finding that the CIA has 'remedied' the destruction," Abdo wrote. "The truth is that the CIA destroyed evidence of torture, and the destruction of this evidence has made it harder to hold high-level officials accountable for the abuse that they authorized."

Carly Sullivan, a spokeswoman for federal lawyers who argued the case, said the government had no comment on the ruling.

In his ruling, the judge noted that the ACLU had cited a recently published article by a former general counsel for the CIA that accused the CIA's former deputy director of operations of defying orders and going behind the top CIA lawyer's back to destroy the videotapes.

He said the argument premised on the belief that one high-ranking official defied orders and destroyed the tapes undermines the ACLU's contention that the CIA as an agency should be held in contempt for the conduct.

Still, the judge wrote, "the lapses of individuals cannot excuse the failures of the agency." He said the CIA had an obligation to identify or produce the videotapes and "cannot be excused in its dereliction because of particular individuals' lapses."

The administration of President George W. Bush had said some tapes were destroyed to protect the identities of the government questioners while the Department of Justice was debating whether the interrogation tactics were legal.

In September 2009, the judge cited national security concerns in ruling that the CIA did not have to release hundreds of documents related to the destruction of the videotapes. He has said he likely would have ruled against public disclosure of videotapes documenting new harsh questioning techniques if the CIA had not destroyed them.

An ACLU lawsuit already has forced the release of legal memos authorizing harsh interrogation methods, including waterboarding, a type of simulated drowning, and slamming suspects into walls, techniques described by critics as torture.
http://online.wsj.com/article/AP4ec4cf51541d484e82880cbc6787512e.html

Great work America, I hope you feel proud of what you have done.
I really hope the international community acts on this, sadly though the rest of the world is powerless up against America and I can imagine justice will never be served.
 
Why is everyone obsessed about the USA doing a bit of water boarding when there are many countries doing real torture to people like mutilation, rape, electrocution.

Why not focus on your efforts on that??

And it's not limited to governments - what about that video of the cartel guy getting his head chopped off with a chainsaw? There are hundreds of those videos. Nobody gives a crap, they get a free pass.
 
Why is everyone obsessed about the USA doing a bit of water boarding when there are many countries doing real torture to people like mutilation, rape, electrocution.

Why not focus on your efforts on that??

And it's not limited to governments - what about that video of the cartel guy getting his head chopped off with a chainsaw? There are hundreds of those videos. Nobody gives a crap, they get a free pass.

The U.S Government is in control of the country, the president especially is supposed to set the example that the nation should follow.
 
Why is everyone obsessed about the USA doing a bit of water boarding when there are many countries doing real torture to people like mutilation, rape, electrocution.

Why not focus on your efforts on that??

And it's not limited to governments - what about that video of the cartel guy getting his head chopped off with a chainsaw? There are hundreds of those videos. Nobody gives a crap, they get a free pass.

Just because someone else is doing something worse doesn't mean that the US government isn't in the wrong.
 
Why is everyone obsessed about the USA doing a bit of water boarding when there are many countries doing real torture to people like mutilation, rape, electrocution.

Why not focus on your efforts on that??

And it's not limited to governments - what about that video of the cartel guy getting his head chopped off with a chainsaw? There are hundreds of those videos. Nobody gives a crap, they get a free pass.

Because the US present themselves as "the good guys". They're the world's only remaining superpower and that means they have a responsibility to set an example.

But you're right. We mustn't be allowed to care about a thing if there are worse things happening elsewhere. We must all focus our caring on a single issue at a time.
 
So this thread is about Al-Qaeda and their human rights?

Having seen films about the British Army getting their legs blown off I fail to give a stuff, in fact if the CIA want a hand then they can film me doing it for them, no charge.
 
So this thread is about Al-Qaeda and their human rights?

Having seen films about the British Army getting their legs blown off I fail to give a stuff, in fact if the CIA want a hand then they can film me doing it for them, no charge.

Torturing people who may or may not be terrorists is rather different to laying traps for people in a known guerilla war.
 
Pretty much everyone does this kind of thing.

End of the day everyone does, and having an investigation which would as always see a bunch of people doing their jobs and doing what their government told them to do, going to jail as scapegoats for some slightly morally questionable interrogations is, retarded.

The leaders who say its wrong, all do it while pretending its wrong and when governments get caught in these situations, its the guys at the bottom that get strung up, not the guys who ordered it.

Life is difficult, for everyone, but what choice would you honestly make, and don't think about it for half a second and take the easy option, think of the potential outcome of a guy in a room you're told may have info that could stop a terrorist attack, that could kill thousands and maybe people you love, family or friends.

The needs of the many have outweighed the needs of the few almost every time in every situation throughout history, thats life.

The difference between a cold blooded murder, and someone killing someone in self defence is clear. The difference between unprovoked attacks on civilians, and doing your best to detain guilty people in an effort to save lives, is also clear, if humans never did anything for fear of being wrong, we'd still be living in caves... if we still existed.

Governments say waterboarding and interogations are wrong publically, because the liberal left wouldn't vote in any leader who said otherwise, its these lies that really quite daft people don't realise are just there to make us feel slightly better about the world we live in, how it really works and how most of the dirty work that lets our lives go on is hidden as much as possible.
 
Super highways, coast to coast,
easy to get anywhere
On the transcontinental overload,
just slide behind the wheel
How does it feel

When there's no destination - that's too far
And somewhere on the way,
you might find out who you are

Living in America - eye to eye, station to station
Living in America - hand to hand, across the nation
Living in America - got to have a celebration

Rock my soul

Smokestack, fatback,
many miles of railroad track
All night radio, keep on runnin'
through your rock 'n' roll soul
All night diners keep you awake,
hey, on black coffee and a hard roll

You might have to walk the fine line,
you might take the hard line
But everybody's working overtime
...
..............................................
 
Every empire fails, America is just the next one.

The issue they have is that most empires last many centuries. America's empire has lasted around half a century. That is merely a flash in the pan from the history books perspective...
 
It will still be here long after you're gone.

Whats that even supposed to mean?

I think i know how long a human lives, i fail to see the relevancy here.

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Abraham Lincoln

It came true.

Of course the problem here is, no one wants or can replace the US, the world is finally in a place that it doesn't need one leader, though im not sure how it will pan out if the EURO collapses.
 
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So they accidentally the interrogation tapes? hmmm..not unusual in these type of cases.

Also, kwerk has a point. no one is saying that USA shouldn't be held to account, but how come we are not seeing a more proportionate attention to other countries/regimes who are acting in much more brutal ways against people? It really does seem as if USA did this, USA did that yada yada yada while other countries are several orders of magnitude worse and no one blinks.
 
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