Winter tyres advice. Only on drive wheels??

area51_for_psx · 24 Oct 2011 at 13:29

Hi guys

Am looking to get winter tyres for the wifes car as she is now doing around 300-400miles a week for work. And after all the snow and ice last year I thought it would be a good idea if she is doing a lot of miles.

She drives a 2006 Clio

Was calling around for quotes for the tyres and one of the tyre fitters said why dont you just put two on the front as they are the only driving wheels. as I was getting prices for 4

Now Am i right in saying this is wrong and would cause the car to act strange and maybe dangerous under hard braking and acceleration? :confused:

Firestar_3x · 24 Oct 2011 at 13:32

area51_for_psx said:
Now Am i right in saying this is wrong and would cause the car to act strange and maybe dangerous under hard braking and acceleration?

Correct, it's a bad idea imho.

Andre · 24 Oct 2011 at 13:42

As the only vehicles in the fleet of cars where I work have them fitted to all 4 wheels are 4-wheel drive, and I work in the middle of the North York moors, I go with what I know works...

If you are not being an idiot driving (i.e. drive for the conditions) then there shouldn't be a problem with just the driving wheels - but I am not a lawyer nor do I work in the tyre industry and this is my own personal opinion.

Gaygle · 24 Oct 2011 at 13:51

Just think - if you have two tyres which grip well in the snow, and two which don't grip at all, what's likely to happen/

Matt82 · 24 Oct 2011 at 13:53

Gaygle said:
Just think - if you have two tyres which grip well in the snow, and two which don't grip at all, what's likely to happen/

i expect youll be best off with two tyres that grip rather than four that dont

and then drive according to the conditions. hardly sounds difficult to me.

Doonhamer · 24 Oct 2011 at 13:53

Only fitting the two is not the best idea although I am sure some people manage just fine in that manner. I cant help but think this guy is more interested in taking the money for the sale of two tyres rather than losing out to somebody for fitting four though.

Firestar_3x · 24 Oct 2011 at 13:54

Matt82 said:
i expect youll be best off with two tyres that grip rather than four that dont

and then drive according to the conditions. hardly sounds difficult to me.

Firestar_3x said:

Hard braking in the snow / ice with winter tyres on the front = weight transfer = back end will come round.

Corner so the front winter tyres grip, back summers don't = crash.

It would be very very easy to drive to the speed which the front winter tyres will allow and have a smash because the backend doesn't have the same level of grip.

Clarkey · 24 Oct 2011 at 14:17

Firestar_3x said:
Hard braking in the snow / ice with winter tyres on the front = weight transfer = back end will come round.

Corner so the front winter tyres grip, back summers don't = crash.

It would be very very easy to drive to the speed which the front winter tyres will allow and have a smash because the backend doesn't have the same level of grip.

+1, it's going to have a very strong oversteer, bit silly really.

LSPIII · 24 Oct 2011 at 14:18

Firestar_3x said:
Hard braking in the snow / ice with winter tyres on the front = weight transfer = back end will come round.

Corner so the front winter tyres grip, back summers don't = crash.

It would be very very easy to drive to the speed which the front winter tyres will allow and have a smash because the backend doesn't have the same level of grip.

Although I agree with this, it does pose the question about whether having snow chains (or snow socks or whatever) on just the front wheels is enough. I don't recall having ever seen a car with 4 snow chains on. Indeed when I hired a car for a ski trip they only supplied snow chains for the front wheels and we had no problems. As you say though, you still have to drive to the conditions!

Firestar_3x · 24 Oct 2011 at 14:20

Clarkey said:
+1, it's going to have a very strong oversteer, bit silly really.

Now the counterargument to that is you drive to the conditions / don't drive any quicker than you would if you had summer tyres all round, however we all know thats BS, it would be all too tempting even for those with lots of self control to keep building up more speed as your confidence in the front tyres increases.

It's a recipe for disaster imho.

LSPIII said:
Although I agree with this, it does pose the question about whether having snow chains (or snow socks or whatever) on just the front wheels is enough. I don't recall having ever seen a car with 4 snow chains on. Indeed when I hired a car for a ski trip they only supplied snow chains for the front wheels and we had no problems. As you say though, you still have to drive to the conditions!

I see those as short term solutions, with winter tyres you could blast down an A road at 50 / 60mph, you can't really do that on snow chains or socks.

Skeeter · 24 Oct 2011 at 14:41

Sounds like a tyre guy who has had a lot of people phone up and then go "uh.... no thanks" when told the price of a set of winter tyres. Selling 2 tyres is better than selling none.

[TW]Fox · 24 Oct 2011 at 14:42

Shock as guy in tyre shop knows about as much about car handling as guy in Tesco knows about cooking.

LSPIII · 24 Oct 2011 at 17:51

Firestar_3x said:
I see those as short term solutions, with winter tyres you could blast down an A road at 50 / 60mph, you can't really do that on snow chains or socks.

A valid point. That and I guess the fact that winter tyres are for cold, wet conditions as well as icy conditions changes things up a bit.

Buy 4.

Not 2.

Definitely not 1.

Gaygle · 24 Oct 2011 at 18:03

Firestar_3x said:
I see those as short term solutions, with winter tyres you could blast down an A road at 50 / 60mph, you can't really do that on snow chains or socks.

Unless you're a white van man or Audi driver, why would you be blasting down A roads if the conditions were bad enough that snow socks/chains were necessary?

Matt82 · 24 Oct 2011 at 18:46

Firestar_3x said:
Hard braking in the snow / ice with winter tyres on the front = weight transfer = back end will come round.

Corner so the front winter tyres grip, back summers don't = crash.

It would be very very easy to drive to the speed which the front winter tyres will allow and have a smash because the backend doesn't have the same level of grip.

Honestly, I know that I would be less likely to crash on one pair of Snow tyres that four summer ones. The worst tyres ive experienced on snow were eagle f1s, I would def be better off with some friction over no friction. And you'd be less likely to get stuck.

So although vids may show them not to be ideal, obviously its better than no friction unless the driver is a complete liability/invalid and can't drive according to the conditions

Edeath · 24 Oct 2011 at 19:06

The way I see it is that yes fitting winter tyres just to the driven wheels will greatly improve traction allowing you to accelerate better and find it easier going up hills. This is because only those 2 wheels are important for this.

However as soon as all 4 wheels come into play such as braking and changing direction this is where problems are going to come in as one set of wheels is going to have far more traction than the other and the car is going to under/oversteer all of the time.

Now for someone who knows how all this works this is fine as they will be expecting it and be able to pre-empt it. However for the average driver to whom a car is white goods to get from A -> B in then this is a terrible idea as they dont generally understand the mechanics involved and will be caught unaware.

This is the same principle as 4x4s on summer tyres in the snow: they can pull away and go up hills better then 2wd cars but cannot stop or turn any better. The extra traction lulls the driver into a false sense of security.

Matt82 - I have F1s on my Mk1 Leon Cupra currently and it tries to 180 every time I brake on snow. Scary stuff first time that happened!

area51_for_psx · 24 Oct 2011 at 19:12

Ill be ordering 4. Thought he was talking rubbish

alexisonfire · 24 Oct 2011 at 19:18

area51_for_psx said:
Was calling around for quotes for the tyres and one of the tyre fitters said why dont you just put two on the front as they are the only driving wheels.

Its actually made me angry that someone you should be able to trust information from has said such a stupid thing. Doing that would be incredibly dangerous.

[TW]Fox · 24 Oct 2011 at 19:20

alexisonfire said:
Its actually made me angry that someone you should be able to trust information from has said such a stupid thing. Doing that would be incredibly dangerous.

Why would he know about car handling? He doesnt test tyres, he takes orders and payment for tyres. He's probably never driven anything better than the lightly modified Fiesta Zetec-S he has in the carpark.

Dogbreath · 24 Oct 2011 at 19:22

Matt82 said:
Honestly, I know that I would be less likely to crash on one pair of Snow tyres that four summer ones. The worst tyres ive experienced on snow were eagle f1s, I would def be better off with some friction over no friction. And you'd be less likely to get stuck.

The problem is that having grippy tyres on the driven wheels will give the average driver a sense that there is plenty of grip available, and they will drive accordingly until they need to touch the brakes on a cambered road or part way around a bend. You might as well put castors on the back in that case. They might have fun holding the car on a hill with the handbrake as well.

With a full set of summer tyres on you'd immediately know that you had next to no grip, and would drive accordingly.