The Motability changes could be good news for all

[Dave85]

I read this on the dailymail and they made it sound like it was costing the tax payer billions and that dirty disabled people were stealing all the monies.

Really made me ashamed that they are digging for anything to moan about these days. Gone so far as to moan about disabled people

 

[shoes]

lol the number of families we have in this country who have absolutely no excuse for not working, that just pop out more kids every year and you're arguing about whether people who are disabled through no choice/fault of their own should get paid?

Disabled people, especially those with no prospect of working need, and deserve all the help we can give them as a civilised society.

Personal opinion, of course.

 

[shoes]

I read this on the dailymail and they made it sound like it was costing the tax payer billions and that dirty disabled people were stealing all the monies.

Really made me ashamed that they are digging for anything to moan about these days. Gone so far as to moan about disabled people

Pesky wheelchair ridden parasites, they even take up more space on the bus, train, in the queue at the supermarket. And they're usually flanked with immigrants who they've teamed up with in a bid to fleece the tax payer. I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

TBH the daily fail website is hilarious to just skim the articles to get a brief idea of the tosh written and then skip straight to reader comments, and don't drink coffee at the same time unless you have a towel to hand.

 

[numatic.nathan]

lol the number of families we have in this country who have absolutely no excuse for not working, that just pop out more kids every year and you're arguing about whether people who are disabled through no choice/fault of their own should get paid?

Disabled people, especially those with no prospect of working need, and deserve all the help we can give them as a civilised society.

Personal opinion, of course.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[mathwat]

lol the number of families we have in this country who have absolutely no excuse for not working, that just pop out more kids every year and you're arguing about whether people who are disabled through no choice/fault of their own should get paid?

Disabled people, especially those with no prospect of working need, and deserve all the help we can give them as a civilised society.

Personal opinion, of course.

+1

At least there's some people with common sense in this forum.

 

[Tinders]

What your friend is doing could be construed as a misuse. Surely a wheelchair bound disabled person needs a WAV. Unless the daughter is small and the wheelchair is a fold up that can fit in a standard boot.

The cost of the car is made up in 3 stages.

Stage 1 - Advance Payment by the customer from their own pocket
Stage 2 - For the duration of the 3 year contract, the DWP will pay the customers mobility allowance straight to Motability.
Stage 3 - At the end of the contract, the car is returned and sold on by Motability. The resale value obviously recoups the rest of the outstanding balance.

So lets say I want to order myself a new Ford Focus Titanium. It has a list price of £19,555.

Advance payment that I make is £795. That brings to cost down to £18,760.

Then I pay my allowance for 3 years. This amounts to approx £8580. This bring the outstanding balance to £10,180. Also, I would imagine that there is a further list price discount which would mean motability would have to recoup around 8k, which is the average value for a 3 yr old Focus. This is the amount that Motability have to receive on resale to achieve a 0 cost lease. Any shortfall is made up by the organisations own funds and NOT taxpayers money as many would have you believe. However in many cases Motability have actually found themselves in profit as their cars are looked on very highly by second hand buyers due to the fact that they recieve the best possible maintenance and many are very low mileage.

His daughter is 5 but is very small for her age, her disability initially was bad ie off to hospital every week, for severe breathing problem water on lungs etc, but now by all accounts its a learning disability. She doesnt need a wheelchair or the ability to move her oxygen tanks about, as she doesnt use them anymore.

Quite frankly the motability scheme is fine, it the Depts that determine the level of benefit that people can get that need sorting, as thats what costs the tax payer.

 

[robfosters]

Quite frankly the motability scheme is fine, it the Depts that determine the level of benefit that people can get that need sorting, as thats what costs the tax payer.

Spot on. IMO Duncan Smith is trying to divert public attention from his own departments failings by going down the easy route and sensationalising the motability issue.

 

[Tute]

lol the number of families we have in this country who have absolutely no excuse for not working, that just pop out more kids every year and you're arguing about whether people who are disabled through no choice/fault of their own should get paid?

Disabled people, especially those with no prospect of working need, and deserve all the help we can give them as a civilised society.

Personal opinion, of course.

Absolutely agree. To be fair though, more needs to be done to stamp down on those abusing the disability benefits system.

 

[atpbx]

[atpbx]Yeah, but its benefits they're spending so it costs us anyway![/atpbx]

Where have I said any of this?

Please, point it out.

I am only expressing an opinion that the only option should be the cheapest possible one.
Regardless of how its funded.

 

[atpbx]

But the extra cost is paid for by the driver so the only wasted money belongs to the driver?

.

If they can spare the money to pay extra for a better car, they can pay more towards the cost of the cheap car surely?

Or use the money to raise their standard of living, which to all intents and purposes having electric windows and alloys over keep fit and trims........doesnt.

 

[[TW]Fox]

.

If they can spare the money to pay extra for a better car, they can pay more towards the cost of the cheap car surely?

You are advocating a means tested element to the higher rate of disability living allowance. Whilst this view may have merit it has nothing really to do with Motability. It just happens that the higher rate DLA is used to fund motability.

In theory you are right but in practice in a world of people on unemployment benefit buying playstation games the one thing I probably can live with is people who are disabled enough to receive higher rate DLA having spare money now and then.

Or use the money to raise their standard of living, which to all intents and purposes having electric windows and alloys over keep fit and trims........doesnt.

In your view. I think the clue there is 'their' money.

 

[Luke]

.

If they can spare the money to pay extra for a better car, they can pay more towards the cost of the cheap car surely?

Or use the money to raise their standard of living, which to all intents and purposes having electric windows and alloys over keep fit and trims........doesnt.

{edit}Actually Fox summed it up better than I did.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I used to be quite vocally against the concept of Motability. You can probably find posts on here where I railed against it. Then I took the time to actually truely understand how it works and now almost all of my objections to it have gone away.

Motability is a charitable organisation which receives no taxpayer funding beyond the higher rate DLA that the car user gives up in order to receive motability. The net cost to the taxpayer of Motability is nil. The net benefit is lots of low mileage crappy used hatchbacks of the type that most people in this country love to buy.

The only real argument against it is that 'its not fair'.

'It's not fair' that they can, or rather could, pay £8500 and get a nice new BMW for 3 years. Correct, its not fair. You or me would need to spend £30k if we wanted the same car. But then so what, you and me probably have better long term earning prospects with which to buy the car anyway and we are not disabled. So there are more important things to get bent out of shape about.

 

[Tute]

Yeah but that £30K would get total ownership, rather than a car which we never actually owned. So in practice, it is pretty fair, no?

[Edit] What i'm trying to say is, isn't this just pretty much like PCP without the option to keep the car at the end of the 36 month term?

 

[robfosters]

Yeah but that £30K would get total ownership, rather than a car which we never actually owned. So in practice, it is pretty fair, no?

[Edit] What i'm trying to say is, isn't this just pretty much like PCP without the option to keep the car at the end of the 36 month term?

It is very much like PCP except that PCP doesn't cover the extras that motability does. However, you do get an option to buy the car if you wish, but it must be in cash. That allows you to buy the vehicle and then hire another one on Motability.

I know of quite a few cars that have been sold by motability to the customers friends or family after their contracts have finished, as it is a very safe option to purchase a car that you have seen since new and are sure everything has been maintained correctly.

 

[paul1234]

As a Motability user I think in the main the changes are reasonable, but I can see the 5 mile rule causing issues in rural areas. I have one other gripe as I think there should be a higher limit, say 2500 for automatic cars. Previously there were over 1100 auto's, now there are just 300. If a car is available in manual, then logically it should be available in automatic too. I am not sure what % of motability cars are auto but would imagine it would be significant. At present someone needing a family size car has just 3 options, Proton, Skoda or an Insignia whereas there are 10 choices in manual. So some auto drivers are at a disadvantage.
As motability is a charity they don't pay VAT and by purchasing in bulk can get discounts of up to 20% from some manufacturers. Thus the Focus with a list price of 19,555 would be 16 295 after a discount of 20% and actually costs 13 580 after VAT is deducted. With an AP of 795 the cost to Motability is under 12 800 in this case so when they get the car back in 3 years the depreciation is far less than would be the case for an individual purchasing the same car.
It will be interesting to see what effect the new Insurance rules with have on prices and also to see how keen the likes of BMW, Volvo, Audi etc are to get some models within the 2k limit. Will we see a 3 series, A4 or S40 or S60? In the past Volvo offered an XC70 auto at just 1999 advance payment.
January's pricing will be interesting.

 

[robfosters]

Paul, There are a lot more automatic cars for a family than those 3.

You may have searched under the family car option, but realistically, the likes of a Citroen Grand C4 Picasso (my current car) is still available as an auto. You can't get more family than that. You can also get a grand C-MAX and S-MAX in auto.

However, I do take your point. I also believe that if a car is available in manual, then the equivalent should be available in auto. I think you might find that come January.

 

[paul1234]

Thanks,
I see many are under the MPV section. Will await with interest next years pricing.

 

[Fr0dders]

I don't understand the 2k advance payment thing they mention at all ?

 

[paul1234]

At present there is no limit to the advance payment. If your DLA does not cover the cost of the lease you pay an Advance Payment up front, in the case of a BMW X3 this can be 15 000. From Jan 2012 the maximum advance payment will be 2 000. So most of the luxury cars, and also many mid range will not be available unless the manufacturers can offer a better deal to motability. For Example, you could have a C Class, S60, 3 series, Passat CC this time for an advance payment of between 2400-6000, but, come Jan 2012 none will be available at current prices.
Of course with the new stringent insurance rules its possible (probable) that lease costs will fall.
Hope that clarifies.