Occupy London! Here we go again!

If these self labelled "anti capitalists" hate our capitalist society so much maybe we can find them a better one, would they like the communist society of China? nope didn't think so, how about the socialist society of the USSR, nope not that either, then maybe they would enjoy the fascist society of the third reich? no not that? oh wait maybe they just want a free ride and to get in the news and cause trouble? ahh thought so, Get a job wasters.
Idiot alert.

Problem 1. Some people who work (me) also don't like corporate greed.

Problem 2. You have referenced the USSR, a entity which no longer exists.

Problem 3. You clearly have no idea what communism is, China is capitalist to the core.

Problem 4. Communism is not synonymous to fascism.

Problem 5. I'd wager good money you would be unable to define the core principles behind either Communist or a Fascist society without loading up WIKI, even then I doubt you would be able to understand it.

Once you have addressed these issues please feel free to pop back in.
 
It exists.

The other system does not.
Great argument.

By that logic humanity would not have progressed for anything.

Quote of the day

"Let's still use leeches, because we currently use them now - this new fangled medicine idea does not currently exist - therefore it must be worse" - Some moron.

The fact an idea is currently implemented has no relation to it's validity compared to other theoretical ideas.

Progression is dependant on change.

Edit - I'm not saying that the proposed idea would work, but you can't say it won't either.

I'd prefer a Technocracy - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy

As is clear in this thread, the public is to stupid to make these kind of choices.
 
Idiot alert.

Problem 1. Some people who work (me) also don't like corporate greed.

Problem 2. You have referenced the USSR, a entity which no longer exists.

Problem 3. You clearly have no idea what communism is, China is capitalist to the core.

Problem 4. Communism is not synonymous to fascism.

Problem 5. I'd wager good money you would be unable to define the core principles behind either Communist or a Fascist society without loading up WIKI, even then I doubt you would be able to understand it.

Once you have addressed these issues please feel free to pop back in.


1: I don't think anybody likes corporate greed, apart from board members.

2: I also referenced the third reich which also no longer exists, they just happen to be two of the biggest examples of socialist and fascist society's in history.

3: Again I wasn't sighting this very second in time, im sure as your so awesome you will remember when China broke ties with the USSR because they weren't communist enough for them?

4: Nobody said it was... :confused:

5: You would lose, either that or I just got lucky in the non multiple choice exams in history ^^


Here's some friendly advice, next time you decide to call somebody an idiot on the internet, try and include less idiotic comments in your response please :P
 
[TW]Fox;20371761 said:
How on earth would that ever work? It doesnt work and would never work because you'd never get the 100% agreement required by all parties involved!

For a start the 1% you cry about would never go for it ;) So you'd have to imprison them... oh wait, and so it starts.
Our current system of 1% owning 99% is much better.

Oh wai....
 
1: I don't think anybody likes corporate greed, apart from board members.

2: I also referenced the third reich which also no longer exists, they just happen to be two of the biggest examples of socialist and fascist society's in history.

3: Again I wasn't sighting this very second in time, im sure as your so awesome you will remember when China broke ties with the USSR because they weren't communist enough for them?

4: Nobody said it was... :confused:

5: You would lose, either that or I just got lucky in the non multiple choice exams in history ^^


Here's some friendly advice, next time you decide to call somebody an idiot on the internet, try and include less idiotic comments in your response please :P
Incredible, from stupid to credulous in moments.

Firstly, you implied that only hippies have a problem with capitalist greed.

Secondly, you mistakenly made the assumption that anybody who dislikes capitalism agrees with either Facism or Authoritarian-Communism (a fallacy of false choices).

Thirdly, anything close to real communism has never existed - if you had studied history you would know that all attempts have ended up as state run authoritarian societies.

The core behind communism is the common ownership of the means of production - not authoritarian state ownership of the means of product.

As this exchange never happened, it's illogical to call the society's communist at all.

For somebody who has apparently been educated in the subject of history you have a fascinating ability to write about the subject like somebody who knows absolutely nothing about the subject.

Well done, it's quite an achievement.
 
Incredible, from stupid to credulous in moments.

Why thank you *bow*.


Firstly, you implied that only hippies have a problem with capitalist greed.

No I didn't.


Secondly, you mistakenly made the assumption that anybody who dislikes capitalism agrees with either Facism or Authoritarian-Communism (a fallacy of false choices).

No I didn't


Thirdly, anything close to real communism has never existed - if you had studied history you would know that all attempts have ended up as state run authoritarian societies.

The core behind communism is the common ownership of the means of production - not authoritarian state ownership of the means of product.

As this exchange never happened, it's illogical to call the society's communist at all.

Yes I know this, however "real" communism is also impossible to implement as it goes against human nature.


For somebody who has apparently been educated in the subject of history you have a fascinating ability to write about the subject like somebody who knows absolutely nothing about the subject.

Well done, it's quite an achievement.

It was until you overshadowed me /cry
 
We need to reduce the size of the government and allow criminal banks to fail when they engage in dodgy high risk behavior. Reducing the size of the government includes ending all political affiliations with the EU and only allowing for free trade agreements and ending custom and tariff charges. Allow for the free import and export of goods and services around the world without restrictions. Need to change the legal tender laws so that we can enjoy a competition in currency and a complete deregulation of the banking industry so that any one can set up a bank if they have the means and credibility to do so. We need to transition all the socialist/fascist industries to free market privatized industries. This includes public transport and the nhs.

But that will never happen in this country because there are so many greedy socialists that want something for nothing and the British education system makes everyone an anti-capitalist pro government individual.
 
Great argument.

By that logic humanity would not have progressed for anything.

Quote of the day

"Let's still use leeches, because we currently use them now - this new fangled medicine idea does not currently exist - therefore it must be worse" - Some moron.

The fact an idea is currently implemented has no relation to it's validity compared to other theoretical ideas.

Progression is dependant on change.

Edit - I'm not saying that the proposed idea would work, but you can't say it won't either.

I'd prefer a Technocracy - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy

As is clear in this thread, the public is to stupid to make these kind of choices.

well no that;s ****ing retarded.

a system like the politics of 7 billions people cannot be compared to an inventions.

the systems are not created by people sitting down deciding the rules and then sticking to them, the laws and rules and morals and values of societies change over time and in relation to others.

the system he proposed requires a sudden and instant change of ALL countries and people which means it cannot exist while the current system exists because it could not compete with it, it would be utterly destroyed by outside forces as every attempt to try it has been in the past.



The fact you think a technocracy can emerge/evolve proves your point about people being too stupid to choose a fixed system.

As to start it would have to compete with the existing one and it would lose...badly.

Same as everyone of these utopian ideals they don't work because the current system exists and is stronger than them and prevents them from ever reaching the point then can be proved right or wrong.
 
What's your solution then Cicero? Let me guess - current system is fine and nothing needs to change whatsoever.

That's like saying what's the solution to human evolution.


Everything will change to be what it has to be to survive it wont ever be perfect and it sure as **** wont ever be one fixed system, if you think it will be the same forever you're kidding yourself.

I can't tell you what it will be because i don't have a crystal ball rammed up my arse like you must but I'd be willing to bet it won't be stateless socialism because that system would be so open to abuse it just couldn't survive in the real world, let alone in competition with it's neighbours.

But yeah feel free to go on with your happy clappy and utopian bull**** if it makes you happy.
 
I attended a committee meeting being held at 'occupy LSX' on Saturday. It's not particularly cohesive, and there already seems to be an oligarchy in terms of leadership. Quite a rag tag bunch with a mix of ideas, certainly not a revolution in the making, just more a group of disaffected kids.

Interestingly enough, during the meeting a woman barged on to the stage 'You say you're standing for the 99% but because of your occupation you have made ME and many other temporary workers in this area unemployed, how do YOU account for that? We are all on minimum wage too and now we have NOTHING'. Needless to say this woman was heckled off to stage with one particularly charming and insightful girl in front of me yelling 'yeah I'm on minimum wage too mate'.
 
I attended a committee meeting being held at 'occupy LSX' on Saturday. It's not particularly cohesive, and there already seems to be an oligarchy in terms of leadership. Quite a rag tag bunch with a mix of ideas, certainly not a revolution in the making, just more a group of disaffected kids.

Interestingly enough, during the meeting a woman barged on to the stage 'You say you're standing for the 99% but because of your occupation you have made ME and many other temporary workers in this area unemployed, how do YOU account for that? We are all on minimum wage too and now we have NOTHING'. Needless to say this woman was heckled off to stage with one particularly charming and insightful girl in front of me yelling 'yeah I'm on minimum wage too mate'.

Why has OLSX caused min. wage temporary workers unemployed? Genuine question.

I have to admit I was very disappointed to read that the OLSX organising committee issued a statement in support of the ***** scum at Dale Farm. What has that got to do with the issues facing everyone today? It also makes me suspect that in this country at least they aren't really serious about what they're protesting about - just an excuse to take part in standing up to the man.
 
Why has OLSX caused min. wage temporary workers unemployed? Genuine question.

Guessing tourist style places are expecting a down turn of business so getting rid of temp staff?


Also other places maybe worried about their staff having to go though unruly crowds and maybe shutting down temporally?
 
Why has OLSX caused min. wage temporary workers unemployed? Genuine question.

I have to admit I was very disappointed to read that the OLSX organising committee issued a statement in support of the ***** scum at Dale Farm. What has that got to do with the issues facing everyone today? It also makes me suspect that in this country at least they aren't really serious about what they're protesting about - just an excuse to take part in standing up to the man.

I believe it was to do with reduced custom, St. Paul's shutting etc. Either way I belived her to be genuine.

I know, I was just trawling through their site today to see if they had improved their 'manifesto' at all and saw that they supported Dale Farm on the basis that they've lost their homes illegally.

I think you're right, they're just picking and choosing points to 'fight' about.
 
That's like saying what's the solution to human evolution.

Why? Because human evolution isn't a problem or because you don't think it can be changed? The first one is a massive cop out and reinforces my opinion of you. The second I absolutely disagree with because I see lots of ways society has interfered with natural evolution e.g. medical treatments that meant people who would have naturally died in childhood today live healthy, normal lives.

Everything will change to be what it has to be to survive it wont ever be perfect and it sure as **** wont ever be one fixed system, if you think it will be the same forever you're kidding yourself.

I can't tell you what it will be because i don't have a crystal ball rammed up my arse like you must but I'd be willing to bet it won't be stateless socialism because that system would be so open to abuse it just couldn't survive in the real world, let alone in competition with it's neighbours.

But yeah feel free to go on with your happy clappy and utopian bull**** if it makes you happy.

Who has said anything about stateless socialism? Once again you can only offer criticism and nothing in the way of answers or thoughts of your own. Sure I can accept that things will never be perfect, but people should at least try to make things better - that's why we have things like the police, the army, schools and hospitals. One thing's for sure, the 1% don't sit back and say "what will be will be" - they use their power and influence for their own benefit. Why can't the 99% do the same in an albeit different way? Isn't democracy supposed to be one person, one vote? not one person, one vote then a whole load of behind the scenes lobbying?
 
I believe it was to do with reduced custom, St. Paul's shutting etc. Either way I belived her to be genuine.

I'm personally very sceptical about the reasons why St. Pauls had to shut. From what I've seen of the protest on TV, I can't see why health and safety would be affected. It's also very disappointing if the Church are employing minimum wage, temporary workers, but that's for another thread I guess.
 
Why? Because human evolution isn't a problem or because you don't think it can be changed? The first one is a massive cop out and reinforces my opinion of you. The second I absolutely disagree with because I see lots of ways society has interfered with natural evolution e.g. medical treatments that meant people who would have naturally died in childhood today live healthy, normal lives.


No because it's so complex and involves so many different issues that there is no "solution" that change comes naturally depending on the environment.

There is no "end game" to evolution or global politics it will be what it HAS to be not what people want it to be.

any fixed system can be manipulated and broken and more importantly become outdated and unwanted by the people.

Who has said anything about stateless socialism?


Erm permabanned that was who i was talking to and was what i was talking about?:confused:

Once again you can only offer criticism and nothing in the way of answers or thoughts of your own. Sure I can accept that things will never be perfect, but people should at least try to make things better - that's why we have things like the police, the army, schools and hospitals. One thing's for sure, the 1% don't sit back and say "what will be will be" - they use their power and influence for their own benefit. Why can't the 99% do the same in an albeit different way? Isn't democracy supposed to be one person, one vote? not one person, one vote then a whole load of behind the scenes lobbying?

Never said thing wont get better in fact if you've ever actually read my political view you'll see that i actually believe things will continue as they have done for the past 50 thousand years, a gradual slow improvement as people and systems change.

I don't believe in fixed systems of government or laws or culture because they do not last.


maybe this is because I'm looking at the long run not simply my life time, I don't believe "great revolutions" change things for the better but a more gradual change over decades and even centuries is a far more prudent approach that will achieve the best result.

The ideas permabanned and others (dolphs etc) espouse on both sides of the fence fall down because they require Everyone to do the same.

dolphs requires no states to carry out socialism or protectionism permas requires everyone to be truly altruistic, I just don't think you can unite 7 billion people under one system at least not in a life time or even a few, slowly over time things will improve as we're seeing with places like china and India and eventually places like Africa, but i believe in a more realistic approach yes it doesn't solve everything NOW or even quickly but it is more likely to happen.

You can't win the game or predict the final moves to make a final system the best we can do is all make little improvements, and the best thing about this is it doesn't matter that not everyone thinks the same, because as thinsg change gradually loopholes are closed and created slowly over time keeping a balance.

With one large change the loop holes all come out at once and you have immense problems because of it (russia during the Stalinist era etc with black marketeers and the states attempts to control the people to enforce their ideals,and now Iraq with every group fighting in the vacuum created by the sudden change).

We can all talk idealistic fantasies about our respective utopia's but that solves nothing and only causes problems, a more realistic and patient approach is what will perform best (as it has historically).

If you disagree fair enough, go try your revolution but don't be surprised when people try to stop you and it ends badly and in suffering for all.
 
I'm personally very sceptical about the reasons why St. Pauls had to shut. From what I've seen of the protest on TV, I can't see why health and safety would be affected. It's also very disappointing if the Church are employing minimum wage, temporary workers, but that's for another thread I guess.

Likewise, it didn't need to close, it has put people out of work though. I don't think she did work at St. Paul's. My girlfriend used to work there whilst we were at university and she was earning quite well as a warden type person (you know, checking no one was taking photos etc.!)
 
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