Fitting another radiator.

Ahleckz · 25 Oct 2011 at 20:48

Plumbers of OcUK!

My living room only has one small radiator in one corner and it really doesn't heat up the room at all well. I can go into the hallway and be nice and warm but coming back into the living room leaves me with a chill.

Would fitting another radiator at the other side of the room be a complicated and expensive job, or quite straight forward?

I have a combi boiler at the other end of the flat and it's gas CH.

Obviously, without dimensions it's a bit of a guessing game for you guys but the living room isn't that big. I can edit this post with dimensions when I'm home later on.

Alternatively, would replacing the radiator be a good idea? Can you get 'good' radiators or are they all the same.

Beans on toast Dave · 25 Oct 2011 at 20:52

is the top of the rad getting hot? if not it might need bleeding
or as you put it it might be too small

i had a similar problem needed a bigger rad, but i put a small fan underneath it, that combo warms up the room quite quickly

shroomz · 25 Oct 2011 at 20:53

Fairly big to huge. Depends on whether you can run pipes behind the skirting boards. If you can, then get the plumber to do so. I'm guessing you're renting in which case I'd leave it and buy an electric one, obviously the safety precautions apply.

ZG002 · 25 Oct 2011 at 20:55

What type of floor do you have? Floor boards or concrete? Where do the pipes on the original rad come from? (below out the floor, from the side, out the wall etc)

Ahleckz · 25 Oct 2011 at 21:00

challengedavid said:
is the top of the rad getting hot? if not it might need bleeding
or as you put it it might be too small

i had a similar problem needed a bigger rad, but i put a small fan underneath it, that combo warms up the room quite quickly

Nah, it's just too small for the room.

shroomz said:
Fairly big to huge. Depends on whether you can run pipes behind the skirting boards. If you can, then get the plumber to do so. I'm guessing you're renting in which case I'd leave it and buy an electric one, obviously the safety precautions apply.

I'm not sure if I could... I own the property, so can do what I want. I don't want an electric one. The skirting boards are old though, and more just bits of wood on the wall rather than clean skirting boards you'd see in a newer property so maybe that prohibits me?

ZG002 said:
What type of floor do you have? Floor boards or concrete? Where do the pipes on the original rad come from? (below out the floor, from the side, out the wall etc)

They come from out of the floor, bendy pipes if that matters? To be honest, I have no idea what type of floor I have!

Mickie · 25 Oct 2011 at 21:00

to put it bluntly, yes adding another radiator to the room will help a hell of a lot..

also dont worry about the boiler, most boilers are over rated for radiators, if its say 24kw, your radiators are probably only taking up 15kw, not even that if ya in a flat..

they're mainly rated high to cope with the hot water..

like its been said check and make sure the current radiator is getting hot all over its area..

old radiators dont convect as well as new, but you need to work out the size of the room, how many windows, outside facing walls. their are calculators on the net if you search and that will tell you what size radiator you need, in btu's or kw's

the main reason he's asking about the floor is, if its concrete, it'll be harder to sorce the heating pipes to repipe the new rad, rather than if its a wood floor, it wouldnt be as hard to pipe up a new rad

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 25 Oct 2011 at 21:06

Why not replace current rad with a decent size double or is there no room?

Ahleckz · 25 Oct 2011 at 21:08

Mickie said:
the main reason he's asking about the floor is, if its concrete, it'll be harder to sorce the heating pipes to repipe the new rad, rather than if its a wood floor, it wouldnt be as hard to pipe up a new rad

Yea, figured that. How much would these things cost? Are we speaking £100-£200 (excluding the price of a new radiator) or £400+?

robskinner said:
Why not replace current rad with a decent size double or is there no room?

Yea, that would be ideal but there isn't the room. The radiator is just in a gap between a corner and where the door lives.

Though, I do have bendy pipes like I said so I wonder if it would be possible to add an attachment onto them and them put a large radiator on another wall...

I think the best thing to do would get on that Ratedpeople website and get a few plumbers round to have a look and give me some quotes. If it's going to be very expensive, then I won't bother (I'll just spend that money on jumpers!) but I can afford a few hundred quid.

Slade2 · 25 Oct 2011 at 21:08

Do you have radiators upstairs? I ask becuase sometimes it is just easier to T off from the upstairs pipe work and come down the wall into the room below. This is how my house is piped up we have 3 rads on 1 side and 2 on the other all suppiled from above but they had to be from above as the boiler in now in the loft. If you have a doorway in the way then piping to the other rad can be a bit of an issue if you are trying to do it on the floor. Adding a rad can be an issue also depending on your system setup. It might involve a system drain down and then install new rad and then a refill were as some systems you can just isolate the supply at various points and install new rads like that.

Doh, didnt realise you lived in a flat but some of my post still applies

ZG002 · 25 Oct 2011 at 21:11

If you lift a corner of carpet you will know what type of flooring you have, stamp with your foot also and it will sound hollow if you have a void under there, If so you can T off the pipes going to the Rad you have (under the floor) and pipe over to a new Rad pretty much anywhere in room.

If it's concrete flooring it's quite a bit harder to fit a new rad else where in the room without pipes showing or a lot of work (with it being a flat)

Mickie · 25 Oct 2011 at 21:13

how long is a peace of string, it all depends how big the radiator needs to be..

this is why ive said you need to calculate everything, which will tell you what radiator you need in BTUs

you then can go onto a website like screwfix or b&q and search for the radiator you need

Ahleckz · 25 Oct 2011 at 21:36

OK, I'm home now.

Just did a quick measurement and B&Q reckon I need 5694.948 BTU/hour.
I have wooden floors. This is good news, I assume?

I guess the radiator would be best situated diagonally across from the existing one. About 15ft away.

Any idea on costs then?

ZG002 · 25 Oct 2011 at 21:39

What size is the rad in now mate? Is it single or double?

Ahleckz · 25 Oct 2011 at 21:43

910x600(mm). It's a double.

ZG002 · 25 Oct 2011 at 21:48

Giving out about 5500 btu then (or as little as 4500 btu depending on rad it would seem), it possible to go slightly bigger? or is there really no space?

Would defo benefit from a second rad in the room, Even if it was quite small.

DBT85 · 25 Oct 2011 at 21:48

Ahleckz said:
OK, I'm home now.

Just did a quick measurement and B&Q reckon I need 5694.948 BTU/hour.
I have wooden floors. This is good news, I assume?

I guess the radiator would be best situated diagonally across from the existing one. About 15ft away.

Any idea on costs then?

Radiators are actually quite reasonable in cost. A 5700 BTU one though is going to be about 600mm high by 1000mm long and will be 2 panels with 2 sets of fins (one per panel). A Stelrad Compact in that size and output is £106 on one website I quickly looked up.

What size is the one you currently have? how many panels and are there fins on all panels? has it been painted?

Also I THINK you are better actually going too large on radiator size, fitting a thermostatic valve (Drayton TRV4 for example) and then turning it to whatever setting you like. That automatically shuts down when the room is at the right temperature. You aren't supposed to put TRVs in the same room as the thermostat though (if you have one). I also THINK that having larger than needed rads is also better if you have a condensing boiler as they are more efficient if the water going back to the boiler is colder than the water that it pumps out. It will always be colder obviosuly, but the bigger the temperature difference the more efficient they are.

All of that paragraph needs to be confirmed by a CH person though. I could have it all arse about face

Ahleckz said:
910x600(mm). It's a double.

Is it the height or width that you cannot change? And is that size WxH or HxW? I think i know but its best to check!

Ahleckz · 25 Oct 2011 at 21:54

ZG002 said:
Giving out about 5500 btu then (or as little as 4500 btu depending on rad it would seem), it possible to go slightly bigger? or is there really no space?

There's 1300mm to play with, that would make it flush against the wall and the door.

The recommend BTU is slightly off, as my kitchen comes off the living room. The kitchen is small, but doesn't have a radiator in it. I'd need a radiator outputting 823BTU/hour for that size of room...

Ahleckz · 25 Oct 2011 at 21:56

Todge said:
Radiators are actually quite reasonable in cost. A 5700 BTU one though is going to be about 600mm high by 1000mm long and will be 2 panels with 2 sets of fins (one per panel). A Stelrad Compact in that size and output is £106 on one website I quickly looked up.

What size is the one you currently have? how many panels and are there fins on all panels? has it been painted?

Also I THINK you are better actually going too large on radiator size, fitting a thermostatic valve (Drayton TRV4 for example) and then turning it to whatever setting you like. That automatically shuts down when the room is at the right temperature. You aren't supposed to put TRVs in the same room as the thermostat though (if you have one). I also THINK that having larger than needed rads is also better if you have a condensing boiler as they are more efficient if the water going back to the boiler is colder than the water that it pumps out. It will always be colder obviosuly, but the bigger the temperature difference the more efficient they are.

All of that paragraph needs to be confirmed by a CH person though. I could have it all arse about face

Is it the height or width that you cannot change? And is that size WxH or HxW? I think i know but its best to check!

Width that I can't change.

wxh
900x600.
Double rad.

Don't have a thermostat, just set the heat (which is full) on the boiler and turn it on.

ZG002 · 25 Oct 2011 at 21:57

Ah so you are losing heat into the Kitchen?

I'd be looking at getting a 2nd Rad fitted into the room, You don't have a lot of room to play with.

Make sure that rad is heating up at the top also (could need bleeding)

Cost wise I can't help there I'm afraid, For a idea on Rad prices use screwfix as a general guide. http://www.screwfix.com/c/heating-plumbing/convector-radiators/cat830988

DBT85 · 25 Oct 2011 at 22:04

Ahleckz said:
Width that I can't change.

wxh
900x600.
Double rad.

Don't have a thermostat, just set the heat (which is full) on the boiler and turn it on.

Then the only thing you could do with that rad is put ina a 700mm high one which at that width is 6000 BTU. If you current rad is old it might not have any fins (none of ours do apart from the new one in the bathroom) so they don't put out as much heat as one with them. EG, a 700x400 rad with 2 panel and only 1 set of fins put outs 2088 BTU. the same size rad with 2 sets of fins puts out 2676BTU.

Is this door the one to the kitchen or the hall?

And I assume when you say wooden floor you mean you have seen the floorboards and not just some nice wooden flooring in your living room or under the carpet?