[In]formal proof of the limitation of 1.5GB VRAM at 1920x1200 resolution

[harmony]

MSAA uses a **** load of vram, that's why most review sites don't have the ball to test Metro 2033 with it at 2560x1600, which would make all 1GB cards (even 1.5GB cards) obsolete.

If you use FXAA instead of MSAA then it could help reduce vram usage (according to what I've read somewhere else). Even AMD is now recommending users to use FXAA in BF3, also for less GPU power required.

 

[Mr Krugga]

MSAA uses a **** load of vram, that's why most review sites don't have the ball to test Metro 2033 with it at 2560x1600, which would make all 1GB cards (even 1.5GB cards) obsolete.

If you use FXAA instead of MSAA then it could help reduce vram usage (according to what I've read somewhere else). Even AMD is now recommending users to use FXAA in BF3, also for less GPU power required.

This is simply not true, my graphics card has 2GB vRAM and it's never limited by it.

Yet applying AA at 2560x1440 just slows the rendering down.

It doesn't matter what memory buffer I have, the single graphics card is not able to render the game at this settings.

How the hell are you people jumping to these conclusions is beyond me.

And on the subject of Metro 2033, my overclocked 6950 struggles at 2560x1440 no matter what levels of AA are applied.

vRAM does **** nothing when your GPU isn't powerful enough to handle the game.

 

[harmony]

This is ********, my graphics card has 2GB vRAM and it's never limited by it.

Yet applying AA at 2560x1440 just slows the rendering down.

It doesn't matter what memory buffer I have, the single graphics card is not able to render the game at this settings.

How the hell are you people jumping to these conclusions is beyond me.

And on the subject of Metro 2033, my overclocked 6950 struggles at 2560x1440 no matter what levels of AA are applied.

vRAM does **** nothing when your GPU isn't powerful enough to handle the game.

Did I say anywhere that 2GB vram is a limiting factor for games in 2011? I'm not saying that you cannot afford SLI or CrossfireX but if you are not interested in multi-GPU at all then this is not your topic.

 

[Purgatory]

LOL can't believe you guys are still even talking to this guy ( I'm starting to think he's a school kid and has nothing better to do then keep posting this stuff all day), guys ignore him, it's a pointless topic really, the proof is all over the internet. Just use google and forget this thread really. He will never stop even when given 100% proof it's something else causing these problems he sees (maybe one of us with a working system needs to go help him set his up right ? ). Ohh should I even mention the Hyper threading issue some are seeing with BF3 ? .. He will say it's to do with vram that stuttering and will call it spikes as vram is being swapped. Even after Nvidia and other companies have stated it needs patching for people with HT CPUs.

 

[harmony]

LOL can't believe you guys are still even talking to this guy ( I'm starting to think he's a school kid and has nothing better to do then keep posting this stuff all day), guys ignore him, it's a pointless topic really, the proof is all over the internet. Just use google and forget this thread really. He will never stop even when given 100% proof it's something else causing these problems he sees (maybe one of us with a working system needs to go help him set his up right ? ). Ohh should I even mention the Hyper threading issue some are seeing with BF3 ? .. He will say it's to do with vram that stuttering and will call it spikes as vram is being swapped. Even after Nvidia and other companies have stated it needs patching for people with HT CPUs.

So you are bothered by a school kid?

Unfortunately I've been running my i7 980X without HT for over a year. I just didn't bother to test BF3 retail as I didn't see vram usage much higher than 1.5GB throughout the campaign game, using the .62 driver. (The .38 drivers did though.) It may eat a lot more than 1.5GB in multi-player sessions, who knows?

Again, if you are a single GPU user of the 40nm era, why bother about vram? A single GTX580 gets smoked by BF3 Ultra 1920x1200 already. (I already tried it, very choppy.)

 

[spookywillow]

MSAA uses a **** load of vram, that's why most review sites don't have the ball to test Metro 2033 with it at 2560x1600, which would make all 1GB cards (even 1.5GB cards) obsolete.

If you use FXAA instead of MSAA then it could help reduce vram usage (according to what I've read somewhere else). Even AMD is now recommending users to use FXAA in BF3, also for less GPU power required.

just done some testing and it's like i said earlier, hard to see with these graphs as they dont really pick up the stutters but as you can see the fps are roughly the same around 40-50fps.

i tested this on the second level as that seems to use most vram out of the levels i have done so far and it's pretty easy to get identicle runs for accuracy.

as the fps slowly start to drop from 50 to 40 is when you get out the vehicle, after that the peaks and dips are where i am doing 360 turns to capture the stutter i get. the big dip towards the end are where i alt tab.

this is with high textures and shadows, 2xAA and the rest at ultra/highest setting except motion blur which is off

nice and smooth fps with the dips and peaks nice and smooth too as i slowly rotate 360 degrees, 100% gpu usage and vram around 930mb after getting out the humvee. perfectly smooth gameplay.

same settings again but with ultra textures and shadows,

quite stuttery even in the cutscene part in the humvee, vram is maxed at 983mb and doesnt change untill it stutters, at that same time gpu usage drops a bit and the fps also drop as you can see and apart from those dips the fps are virtually the same. towards the end of the graph when i do my 360 turns you can see it's hardly as smooth as the other run which is down to stuttering, the vram also peaks at over 1000mb and the gpu slows to 75% usage while doing these turns.

if it was down the the gpu being too slow then it would not drop to 75%

someone with a 5870 2gb needs to come and run the same as me and see if they get stuttering.

 

[harmony]

^^

Thanks for posting this. I think the temporary drop of GPU usage (where exactly the framerates dips, even calculated over each one-second time-interval, not instantaneous fps) can be a symptom of vram shortage, which happens during thrashing.

It's extremely hard to do a fair comparison, because the other 5870 2GB is likely to be run on another machine with different CPU, driver version, OS config etc.

 

[spookywillow]

i agree harmony, its the same thing i got on crysis, lower textures and it goes away.

i doubt someone else testing with a 2gb 5870 would make much difference in regards to their setup as it's already known a decent quad performs as good as the best within a few fps.

 

[spookywillow]

here we go, http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=20432448&postcount=374

 

[Final8y]

Thread title says 1920x1200.

My reply was not in context of the thread and its clear i was just having a laugh with the guy, this thread has been going long enough before i posted for me to see that its about 1920x1200 and even then 1920x1200 is becoming less common and it should really be about 1920x1080.

 

[spookywillow]

^^

Thanks for posting this. I think the temporary drop of GPU usage (where exactly the framerates dips, even calculated over each one-second time-interval, not instantaneous fps) can be a symptom of vram shortage, which happens during thrashing.

It's extremely hard to do a fair comparison, because the other 5870 2GB is likely to be run on another machine with different CPU, driver version, OS config etc.

you edited but just to clarify i set the polling rate at 200ms instead of the default 1000 to try and capture the fps drops, should also state that i run at 1080p.

 

[harmony]

you edited but just to clarify i set the polling rate at 200ms instead of the default 1000 to try and capture the fps drops, should also state that i run at 1080p.

Ah, 200ms intervals are certainly better to detect this problem, than 1000ms intervals, which is still used as the industry standard by 99% of the review sites. The most sensitive way to detect this problem, is to use frametimes analysis, as used by Techreport. It was explained on #7 of this thread.

 

[kalyyy]

For BF3, repi is a Rendering Architect at DICE working on Frostbite, Battlefield 3

@repi i use afterburner 2.2.0 B8 and gpu-z 5.5, so 1.5gb will not have lag spikes or stuttering comparing 3gb when all of his vram is used?


@bf3forultra not that I've seen


http://twitter.com/#!/repi

 

[spookywillow]

i wondered what you used, i dont really need to use it though as i know lack of vram is my problem if i want to run ultra textures and AA.

just did a run on ultra without AA and it was the same as the high + 2xAA i did earlier except i get around 10-15 fps more and it's still as smooth.

 

[Mr Krugga]

Did I say anywhere that 2GB vram is a limiting factor for games in 2011? I'm not saying that you cannot afford SLI or CrossfireX but if you are not interested in multi-GPU at all then this is not your topic.

I am interested in a crossfire setup and can afford it. I'm merely holding out until the new generation comes out so I can see what they offer.

This graph you posted is an interesting one, unlike most of the other ones posted in this thread.

I am not saying that Metro 2033 doesn't require more than 1.5GB vRAM at 2560x1600 4xAA and it's hardly related to your thread's title.

 

[harmony]

I am interested in a crossfire setup and can afford it. I'm merely holding out until the new generation comes out so I can see what they offer.

This graph you posted is an interesting one, unlike most of the other ones posted in this thread.

I am not saying that Metro 2033 doesn't require more than 1.5GB vRAM at 2560x1600 4xAA and it's hardly related to your thread's title.

Then your cries regarding 2GB is hardly related to my thread's title either. I was just telling the fact that MSAA is a vram whore, what's wrong with it?

 

[Mr Krugga]

Then your cries regarding 2GB is hardly related to my thread's title either. I was just telling the fact that MSAA is a vram whore, what's wrong with it?

It's a wrong assumption, that's what's wrong with it.

You will be GPU-power limited long before you're out of vRAM in 99% of the cases.

The only one crying the need of having 2GB vRAM is you so it's hardly right to call me on that.

 

[Mr Krugga]

That quote by the BF3 dev is so right and the fact has been posted over and over again and yet is being ignored by you and the like:

the OS and driver can use as much memory as they want to if no one else needs it

Using the available vRAM doesn't mean requiring all of it.

2560x1600 is a 78% higher resolution than 1920x1200, that alone requires significantly more vRAM for textures but is not the only factor taxing the GPUs.

 

[harmony]

It's a wrong assumption, that's what's wrong with it.

You will be GPU-power limited long before you're out of vRAM in 99% of the cases.

The only one crying the need of having 2GB vRAM is you so it's hardly right to call me on that.

Then you must be misquoting or misunderstanding me. I'd state here again for those who do not care to read:

a) GPU power is the dominating factor in terms of performance;

b) Sufficient vram is the necessary condition to obtain consistent framerates and unleash the full potential of the GPU power;

c) It is recommended to get sufficient vram for SLI/CrossfireX, because vram does not stack up due to the AFR mechanism.

 

[Mr Krugga]

Then you must be misquoting or misunderstanding me. I'd state here again for those who do not care to read:

You clearly stated in the thread that 1.5GB vRAM is not enough for 1920x1200 in games which is not linked to reality in any way or form and the reason why this thread should be locked.