Headset using xfi cmss 3d or Dolby Digital 5.1?

[elrasho]

I currently use a Fatal1ty Pro headset and XFI Xtreme Gamer sound card for my games.

The XFi series have something called 'xfi cmss 3d' which basically emulates 5.1 surround sound through your headset. It does a good job but I've seen headsets that have Dolby Digital 5.1 (Tritton AX Pro: http://www.hardwareheaven.com/revie...1-headset-review-headset-and-control-box.html).

Is Dolby Digital 5.1 better than xf cmss 3d? Has anyone had experience using both?

 

[gwobbles]

i havent experienced cmss 3d. but i can tell you im loving dolby headphone as i just purchased the xonar xense and pc 350 bundle only a few days ago

btw: apparently some people find that dolby headphone sounds like its in your head... i dont understand what that means and also it sounds a bit tinny, which i think i can relate to. though with some tweaking and getting used to the 'flavour' its pretty decent

 

[Psycho Sonny]

im selling a real 5.1 headset on the members market, make me an offer if you want, i paid well over £100 for it, so im letting it go very cheap.

its not even that old either, but i have upgraded to a wireless stereo headset as i have too many wires in my room.

it comes with 4 separate wires, 1 plugs into your sound cardss front speaker out, another into surround speaker out, 1 into sub/centre and the other into microphone jack. so it will work with any onboard 5.1 or better sound cards as well as dedicated.

it lights up blue if you want it to (can be used without), its a proper LAN gaming headset, made by Razer.

make sure you take a look. you can accurately pinpoint exactly where enemies are in CSS as you hear their footsteps in real surround sound, it has different speakers within the headset.

 

[elrasho]

i havent experienced cmss 3d. but i can tell you im loving dolby headphone as i just purchased the xonar xense and pc 350 bundle only a few days ago

btw: apparently some people find that dolby headphone sounds like its in your head... i dont understand what that means and also it sounds a bit tinny, which i think i can relate to. though with some tweaking and getting used to the 'flavour' its pretty decent

The PC 350 have a 3.5mm connection, you cant be getting dolby digital to your headphones?? I thought dolby digial would only go down optical/spdif connections.

 

[elrasho]

im selling a real 5.1 headset on the members market, make me an offer if you want, i paid well over £100 for it, so im letting it go very cheap.

its not even that old either, but i have upgraded to a wireless stereo headset as i have too many wires in my room.

it comes with 4 separate wires, 1 plugs into your sound cardss front speaker out, another into surround speaker out, 1 into sub/centre and the other into microphone jack. so it will work with any onboard 5.1 or better sound cards as well as dedicated.

it lights up blue if you want it to (can be used without), its a proper LAN gaming headset, made by Razer.

make sure you take a look. you can accurately pinpoint exactly where enemies are in CSS as you hear their footsteps in real surround sound, it has different speakers within the headset.

Thanks but I'd prefer to get new ones, hope your sell quick though

 

[gwobbles]

sorry i misread, i use dolby headphone

 

[elrasho]

sorry i misread, i use dolby headphone

I stand corrected: 'the setup includes first person shooter-optimized surround sound, Dolby Headphone 5.1 and Xonar GX2.5 support, and 6.5mm studio jacks rather than regular 3.5mm sockets.'

The headphones have separate jacks so they can carry a Dolby signal

EDIT: £180 for that setup is great value but I dont want to spend that much. I want to know if its worth asking the move to Dolby Digital headphones from cmss 3d first.

 

[Rroff]

Which system works best depends a lot on the person and the headset used but as a general rule IMO:

CMSS-3D is better for competitive FPS games with great 360 degree positional accuracy and reasonable elevation cues - however it tends to sound a bit clinical and somewhat lifeless/lacking in range cues - harder than dolby headphone to get a feeling for exactly how far away something is.

Dolby Headphone is better for single player games, movies, etc. with an immersive soundstage with good cues for depth i.e. you can tell if someones walking towards you or away from you and roughly how far away they are but is usually less "pinpoint" for positional accuracy. Newer versions have elevation filters (via pro-logic IIx, etc.) but generally not as good as CMSS-3D for telling the height of a sound.

 

[Marsman]

A good explanation from Rroff.

Dolby Digital isn't any better than Dolby Headphone or CMSS 3D, as it's just used to get the 5.1 sound from one device to another. The Tritton's, I believe use multiple drivers, pretty much like the Roccat Kave's do. They have an SPDIF connection, so need Dolby Digital.

There are other headsets that also use an SPDIF connection, but rather than having multiple drivers, they are just stereo. Then Dolby Headphone is used to create a surround sound effect.

Dolby Headphone is found on more devices than CMSS 3D, because being Creative's own design, they haven't up until now sold it out to anyone else, save for a few motherboards.

As Rroff said, it depends which you prefer, DH, or CMSS 3D, and also the headphones or headset used.

 

[elrasho]

Am I right in saying that having separate plug-ins for each speaker is better than using one green plug-in and CMSS 3D?

I've seen these: http://xsreviews.co.uk/reviews/peripherals/roccat-kave/. They have four 3.5mm jack plugs and Centre/Front/Rear Driver units. Does that mean the headset has separate speakers inside it? I won't need to use CMSS 3D if buy this headset? Will I get "true" 5.1 surround sound?

 

[Marsman]

CMSS 3D and Dolby Headphone are for use with stereo headphones. Those Kave's have multiple drivers, or speakers if you prefer, in each ear cup.

CMSS 3D/DH etc, is seen as simulated. Manufacturers of multi driver/speaker headphones like to point that out, that their product is true, and not simulated. The problem is, their idea of what is true, when it comes to 5.1 headphones, is completely wrong.

True 5.1 from headphones, is not possible. Manufacturers slap that on the product, and most people don't bother to question if it's correct or not. Most people just see the word true, and that's good enough for them.

They are not true 5.1 at all. Anyone who thinks they are, really has no idea about what true 5.1 really is. For anyone who does, go and read up about what true 5.1 is, and how it works. Putting a load of drivers/speakers in each ear cup, does not make headphones true 5.1.

If manufacturers can claim a pair of headphones crammed full of separate drivers, is true 5.1. If I had a company which manufactures TV's. Could I claim that a 3D TV is true 3D?

At the end of the day, it's about whether they work for the individual or not. Some people find them abominations, while some people think they are great.

If someone likes the Kave's or similar, and prefers them over stereo + CMSS 3D/DH, that's fine. I have no issues with that. For someone to claim they that they are better, because they are supposedly, true 5.1, that I do have a problem with.

If you want to get a pair of the Kave's, then that's up to you. If you end up preferring them over stereo + CMSS 3D, that's fine. But don't go thinking they are going to be better, just because some company slapped a true 5.1 label on the box.

 

[elrasho]

CMSS 3D and Dolby Headphone are for use with stereo headphones. Those Kave's have multiple drivers, or speakers if you prefer, in each ear cup.

CMSS 3D/DH etc, is seen as simulated. Manufacturers of multi driver/speaker headphones like to point that out, that their product is true, and not simulated. The problem is, their idea of what is true, when it comes to 5.1 headphones, is completely wrong.

True 5.1 from headphones, is not possible. Manufacturers slap that on the product, and most people don't bother to question if it's correct or not. Most people just see the word true, and that's good enough for them.

They are not true 5.1 at all. Anyone who thinks they are, really has no idea about what true 5.1 really is. For anyone who does, go and read up about what true 5.1 is, and how it works. Putting a load of drivers/speakers in each ear cup, does not make headphones true 5.1.

If manufacturers can claim a pair of headphones crammed full of separate drivers, is true 5.1. If I had a company which manufactures TV's. Could I claim that a 3D TV is true 3D?

At the end of the day, it's about whether they work for the individual or not. Some people find them abominations, while some people think they are great.

If someone likes the Kave's or similar, and prefers them over stereo + CMSS 3D/DH, that's fine. I have no issues with that. For someone to claim they that they are better, because they are supposedly, true 5.1, that I do have issues with.

If you want to get a pair of the Kave's, then that's up to you. If you end up preferring them over stereo + CMSS 3D, that's fine. But don't go thinking they are going to be better, just because some company slapped a true 5.1 label on the box.

The reason I'm getting these is that they have separate "speakers" in each ear cup. And because they have individual jacks which to me means each speaker is getting proper sound intended for the speaker from the game. Where as with CMSS-3D the creative software is guessing where the sound should be projected.

Also these Kave headsets use USB to power them which means they must be more powerful than my Creative Fatality headsets.

If I get a pair of Kave headsets I won't need to use Dolby Decoding on my XFI Xtreme Gamer card, all I will need to do it ensure the speaker setup is set to 5.1 in the Creative Audio Console. Am I right in saying the sound won't be a lossy format as there wont be any Dolby decoding done on it? In theory this should sound better than CMSS-3D.

When I'm playing BF3 I struggle to hear footsteps and the like that are directly behind me, its like CMSS-3D fails to generate sound thats directly 180 degrees behind me.

 

[elrasho]

Using my Roccat Kave Solid 5.1 now. Married up the 3mm plugins to my XFI Xtremegamer and the pink Microphone to my onboard mic.

As there are speaker in this headset to do 5.1 I disabled CMSS3D but left Windows 7 and creative console set to 5.1 speakers. Did the sound test in Win7 to check surround was working and it is. I can definantly tell the difference between rear and side speakers

Launched BF3 and I can now hear the ambient noise much clearer, things I couldnt hear when using CMSS3D + Creative Fatality headset. Its distracting though but I guess it will take time for me to get used to it.

Launched Transformers 1080P with DTS sound and it sounds amazing on this headset! At the begningin with the robot surround sound... WOW just WOW! These things are very powerful, so much so that I can hear hissing when nothing is being played so I have to lower the volume. Im still getting used to them and need to play hours on end to see if these are better than CMSS3D + Creative Fatality.

 

[Marsman]

Leave speakers in game and in Windows set to 5.1. CMSS 3D though, I'm not sure about. I'll have to have a think about that.

Edit: I think CMSS 3D does different things, depending on the mode. It works differently for speakers than it does for headphones, IIRC.

Try it off and on, see what the difference is.

 

[Marsman]

Launched Transformers 1080P with DTS sound and it sounds amazing on this headset! At the begningin with the robot surround sound... WOW just WOW! These things are very powerful, so much so that I can hear hissing when nothing is being played so I have to lower the volume. Im still getting used to them and need to play hours on end to see if these are better than CMSS3D + Creative Fatality.

I have to say, I have found CMSS 3D to be complete pants when it comes to films. Dolby Headphone wipes the floor with it. CMSS 3D is only good for gaming.

The performance of CMSS 3D will also differ depending on the headphones or headset.

 

[elrasho]

Leave speakers in game and in Windows set to 5.1. CMSS 3D though, I'm not sure about. I'll have to have a think about that.

Edit: I think CMSS 3D does different things, depending on the mode. It works differently for speakers than it does for headphones, IIRC.

Try it off and on, see what the difference is.

yes when I have 5.1 speakers set CMSS3D has different options:



Where it says On the option is called Upmix. Not sure what they do, gonna do some google searches.

I have to say, I have found CMSS 3D to be complete pants when it comes to films. Dolby Headphone wipes the floor with it. CMSS 3D is only good for gaming.

The performance of CMSS 3D will also differ depending on the headphones or headset.

I agree, I found CMSS3D in movies didn't do anything.

 

[Rroff]

Yeah CMSS has different modes for handling speakers as well as headphones, it can upmix stereo into surround speakers or reproduce surround in headphones from a stereo source as well as reproduce a multi-channel source into headphone "surround" and other stuff like virtual speakers in headphone and 2.x speaker modes and so on.

AFAIK the upmix options give you the choice of either spreading the stereo effect over the entire speaker setup or trying to reproduce a surround effect from the stereo track.

While I'd agree that generally it doesn't work for movies as well as Dolby Headphone, it does work quite well for movies - its just a LOT more complicated to setup and get it working "right" for movies.

 

[elrasho]

I tried CMSS3D with Stereo Xpand and stereo envelopment set to 50% (the default). using this setup I get a mishmash of sound from all the speakers in the headset, I cant hear my own footsteps nor when someone in game shouts.

I think if you have a 5.1 setup you shouldn't have CMSS3D on. It work brilliantly giving a virtual surround sound over 2.0 headset, but now that I'm using a 5.1 headset the sounds all over the place.

 

[Marsman]

"Top tip for anyone who didnt already know - I had CMSS3D enabled on my X-Fi, it wasnt performing as well as I thought, until in the BF3 Sound options I disabled the enhanced stereo feature, which I think attempts to upmix the stereo output to a surround sound, but it seemed lessened when both this and CMSS3D was enabled - when I disabled this, I was able to pinpoint not only direction, but also distance - and this was on my PC161's!"

That was posted by Stealthgeek, in a different thread.

Maybe you could try disabling that, if you haven't already, see if it improves the CMSS 3D performance.

I know it doesn't matter much now you have the Kave's, but it would be interesting to see if that had anything to do with why you found CMSS 3D to be poor.

 

[elrasho]

"Top tip for anyone who didnt already know - I had CMSS3D enabled on my X-Fi, it wasnt performing as well as I thought, until in the BF3 Sound options I disabled the enhanced stereo feature, which I think attempts to upmix the stereo output to a surround sound, but it seemed lessened when both this and CMSS3D was enabled - when I disabled this, I was able to pinpoint not only direction, but also distance - and this was on my PC161's!"

That was posted by Stealthgeek, in a different thread.

Maybe you could try disabling that, if you haven't already, see if it improves the CMSS 3D performance.

I know it doesn't matter much now you have the Kave's, but it would be interesting to see if that had anything to do with why you found CMSS 3D to be poor.

I didn't find CMSS 3D to be poor, I just wanted to try 5.1 headsets rather than 2.0 headset (like the creative fatality). Im still testing settings, but Im coming to the conclusion if you have a 5.1 speaker setup then then CMSS 3D off.

EDIT: I can confirm that, BF3 sounds much better without CMSS 3D. I've adjusted the sliders on the controller that comes with Kave to have the rear speakers ever so slightly more louder, its helps with determining if sounds players,bullets/tanks/choppers are behind you.