40+40x0+1 =

haaammit · 10 Nov 2011 at 23:54

Kenai said:
I never mentioned every day life, I questioned how you progressed through secondary school level maths (ie. algebra) without knowing these very basic rules which underpin the entire thing and are fundamental to understanding it and being able to do it.

Because they were not taught? How can I repeat the same thing tine and time again?

Craterloads · 10 Nov 2011 at 23:55

PGdude said:
You're taking the wee, I've taught D grade students that knew this rule.

The BODMAS/BIDMAS rule isn't so much a rule but a convention called the order of operations so that everyone is working with the same logic. Basically the order of operations exists so that people don't get answers such as... not 41.

Edit: Also if anyone will dispute this and say "Oh I wasn't taught this", they are merely being ignorant and it would be best to ignore them. I figure the kind of person they were at school and are as people now. I learnt it myself. Big deal. It's just how it works.

I just dont get it, Im looking at it as if its a formula

40+40 = 80
X 0 = still equals 80
+ 1 = 81

Unless by X it by 0 you half it to get = 40
then + 1
= 81

UncleRuckus · 10 Nov 2011 at 23:55

Quink said:
You're excused

No, no people have corrected you. Now please correct me; what was wrong with my previous sentences before?

Raymond Lin · 10 Nov 2011 at 23:55

Quink said:
Because they were not taught? How can I repeat the same thing tine and time again?

How is that relevant to your answer being wrong?

haaammit · 10 Nov 2011 at 23:55

Kenai said:
I never mentioned every day life, I questioned how you progressed through secondary school level maths (ie. algebra) without knowing these very basic rules which underpin the entire thing and are fundamental to understanding it and being able to do it.

How does knowing 40+40x0+1=whatever help me with day to day issues?

PermaBanned · 10 Nov 2011 at 23:56

Wierd thing is that i get this, i almost enjoy being able to do it. But the jump between GCSE and A Level Maths is just stupid, both in terms of difficulty and workload compared to every other subject there is (not counting essays

).

I should really make a decision about if i'm going to do an OU Maths module or not... it does seem to me that the reason i didn't enjoy Maths isn't neceseraly (oh my god how do you spell that word‽ the number of times i've had to google it :rolleyes:

) because i didn't enjoy Maths, but because i didn't enjoy how we were being taught it and the way we were doing it. When i do things in my own time on my own terms i'm far more likely to enjoy it, and as a consequence of that far more likely to actually learn it.

/thinking out loud

Camarilla · 10 Nov 2011 at 23:56

Craterloads said:
I just dont get it, Im looking at it as if its a formula

40+40 = 80
X 0 = still equals 80
+ 1 = £81

Unless by X it by zero you half it to get = 40
then + 1
= 81

Anything multiplied by 0 = 0.

I'm not getting into the whole order of operations part.

FoxEye · 10 Nov 2011 at 23:57

PermaBanned said:
I think the why is simply because there has to be a standardized order of operations, or else you end up with two different people getting two completely different unrelated answers to the same question. As far as i'm aware multiplication and division have always taken place before addition and subtraction.

That's probably because multiplication is basically 'fast' addition. For example:

4+5*3

could also be written as

4+5+5+5

Which is clearly 19 and not 27

Playing devil's advocate here, if addition had higher precedence then multiplication, then

4+5*3

would be a fast way of writing

4+5 + 4+5 + 4+5

So you basically have to know and apply the rules of precedence to derive this argument...

Sorry I'm not helping am I

Raymond Lin · 10 Nov 2011 at 23:57

Craterloads said:
I just dont get it, Im looking at it as if its a formula

40+40 = 80
X 0 = still equals 80
+ 1 = 81

Unless by X it by zero you half it to get = 40
then + 1
= 81

Think of it as 40 + (40 x 0) + 1

Kenai · 10 Nov 2011 at 23:57

Quink said:
Because they were not taught? How can I repeat the same thing tine and time again?

You're not answering the question i'm asking (perhaps if you're going to be critical of others English, you ought to learn to read properly yourself?) - how did you do the rest of it if you didn't know the basic rules?

If you were never taught the very basic fundamentals that you divide and multiply before you add and you add before you subtract you'd have just constantly got stuff wrong all the way through school and more than likely failed maths.

PermaBanned · 10 Nov 2011 at 23:58

Craterloads said:
I just dont get it, Im looking at it as if its a formula

40+40 = 80
X 0 = still equals 80
+ 1 = 81

Unless by X it by 0 you half it to get = 40
then + 1
= 81

Anything times 0 is 0. If you have 0 apples how many apples do you have? If you have twice as many apples how many apples do you have?

And you do multiplication before addition!

haaammit · 10 Nov 2011 at 23:59

UncleRuckus said:
Now, I just find you a little hypocritical and ignorant.

Just because some people here are better at Maths, they must be wild fappers who spent all their school with their head's in books?

Guess what? I wasted my school years away, but I wanted to better myself.

People have been trying to tell you why it works with links to read, even.(can't do that bit), yet you argued the toss about something you know nothing of?

I know English

Pudney · 11 Nov 2011 at 00:02

Quink said:
I know English

Erm, you've just changed it to be even more wrong :confused:

Craterloads · 11 Nov 2011 at 00:02

Raymond Lin said:
Think of it as 40 + (40 x 0) + 1

Ok i think i get it now, its just basically missing the brackets, that i would usualy be used to. Eg:-

40 + (40x0) + 1 = 41

PermaBanned said:
Anything times 0 is 0. If you have 0 apples how many apples do you have? If you have twice as many apples how many apples do you have?

And you do multiplication before addition!

Im going to sound like a proper tard but: -

If you have 40 apples x 0 people you still have 40 apples. no?

Tummy · 11 Nov 2011 at 00:03

Quink said:
How does knowing 40+40x0+1=whatever help me with day to day issues?

As I said above, it's the method of being able to work out a problem correctly, not the actual equation.

You were taught this method (maybe by a different name) at School

Camarilla · 11 Nov 2011 at 00:04

Craterloads said:
Im going to sound like a proper tard but: -

If you have 40 apples x 0 people you still have 40 apples. no?

Umm, no? If you have 40 apples per person, but no people, you have no apples.

haaammit · 11 Nov 2011 at 00:05

Kenai said:
You're not answering the question i'm asking (perhaps if you're going to be critical of others English, you ought to learn to read properly yourself?) - how did you do the rest of it if you didn't know the basic rules?

If you were never taught the very basic fundamentals that you divide and multiply before you add and you add before you subtract you'd have just constantly got stuff wrong all the way through school and more than likely failed maths.

Because I was taught maths correctly :confused:

GCSE grade B - how can that equate to being taught maths incorrectly?

Pudney · 11 Nov 2011 at 00:05

Craterloads said:
Im going to sound like a proper tard but: -

If you have 40 apples x 0 people you still have 40 apples. no?

You can't multiply apples with people

If you have 40 lots of 0 apples how many apples do you have?

Craterloads · 11 Nov 2011 at 00:06

Camarilla said:
Umm, no? If you have 40 apples per person, but no people, you have no apples.

forget the people!

if you have 40 apples x 0 apples youve still got the original 40 apples?

or 40 apples in one hand and 0 apples in the other, you still got them 40

Tummy · 11 Nov 2011 at 00:07

Quink said:
Because I was taught maths correctly GCSE grade B - how can that equate to being taught maths incorrectly?

You were taugh the process though.

It's on National Curriculum, and has been since prior to when you were at school, 1988 iirc