Letting agents/Landlord - Right to enter.

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The wife and I are moving out of our let property on the 12/12, however our letting agents are being rude and right arrogant *****.
The first instance; I called our letting agents to inquire about the amount of notice I must give before vacating the property. They asked which property and replied "a month".
Later that day the mrs brought to my attention (whilst looking at properties on right move) that our current property was on there to let mere hours after the brief conversation with the agents, BEFORE we had even given written notice. They had just gone ahead and posted the property on a verbal inquiry!
No matter I thought, "Were out of here soon anyway" I posted our notice the next day, with a cheque enclosed for an extra days rent (£19.73) so we could move on the 12/12 and not to be kicked out on the 11/12.
The second instance;
Clearly the agents wants to get prospective tenants in as soon as possible.
I have no problem with the letting agent showing people round when I have "enough" notice and when either myself or my wife are at the property.
2.40pm - I receive a call from the agents instructing me that at 3pm today they would be showing people round as previously agreed on the phone.
Confused, I told them I was not in, neither was my wife and the flat wasn't in a presentable state!
I ask to call back and then rang my other half, asking whether she had given them permission to come round for a viewing, she said no.
I called the agents back thinking there must have been a mistake and they rearranged for 6pm. I then spent 3 hours cleaning the flat, its spotless.
6pm came and went. The mrs then called the agents, they told her that had told me they rearranged it for Monday (I wouldn't of done this because both of us are at work all day until late), no mention of monday in the previous conversation. They told her that I must be lying and we had to call them again to rearrange a viewing times.

Now, I've contacted the landlord asking her whether they can just let themselves in and she has said that she can give them permission to enter the premises when were not in if prospective tenants want to the view the flat whilst were not in. I'm a little alarmed by this and doesn't seem legal.

In our tenancy agreement it states that;

The Tenant will: Permit the Landlord or the Landlord's agents at reasonable hours in the daytime within the last calendar month of the tenancy to enter and view the property with prospective tenants.

It doesn't say whether we have to be present or how much notice they have to give before the enter the property.
We've found a little information on the landlords right to enter, but does showing prospective tenants around as 'reasonable access'?

Your landlord has a right to reasonable access to carry out repairs. What ‘reasonable access’ means depends on why your landlord needs to get access. For example, in an emergency, your landlord is entitled to immediate access to carry out any necessary work.
Your landlord also has a right to enter the property to inspect the state of repair or to empty a fuel slot meter, but they should always ask for your permission and should give you at least 24 hours notice.
If you are staying in lodgings where it is agreed that your landlord provides a room-cleaning service or where you share a room with other lodgers, your landlord can enter without permission.

Your landlord does not have a right to enter in any other circumstances unless they have a court order.

I can see this getting ugly, when we just want to get out of here without the drama.

Anyone had similar experience and offer any advice?
 
Estate Agents are cheating lying scum. If I had my way, I'd line every one of them up against a (obviously long) wall, and execute them all by single gun shot to the head.

Sorry to read you've had drama. Hope you get it sorted.
 
As it says in your second quote, unless it's some kind of emergency, they need to give 24 hours notice before entering the property, I'm pretty sure that's law. This includes showing prospective tenants around, as it's not really an emergency :P. Also as far as I am aware, you don't have to be around or in, they'll have keys to get in, but they need to notify you 24 hours before as stated. :)

Edit: Although re-reading that it also says they need your permission plus prior warning, and that's just for inspection stuff, not showing them around... but to be honest I'd apply the 24 hour notice + permission to any showings around for new tenants. As long as they stick to that, I'd personally have no problems them showing prospective tenants around. You can always say no if you also want to be around during the showings.
 
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In my experience 'reasonable notice' can be either 24 or 48 hours. 3 hours is not reasonable and 20 minutes is taking the ****.

The emergency thing is right, but it has to be a genuine emergency, not 'I fancy having a look round' or 'they're moving out and I want to show prospective new tenants round'.

If they do enter without the required notice (unless you say it's ok) then they are in breach of contract and probably some right to peaceful enjoyment of the property under the human rights act 1998.
 
I thought it was 24 hours notice.

So the landlord can't give them permission to enter either right?
 
I thought it was 24 hours notice.

So the landlord can't give them permission to enter either right?

It might well be 24 hours in your case, but I've heard of 48.

The contract is between you and the landlord; the estate agents are simply their representative, so the rules apply to the landlord as much as the estate agent and hence, no they can't give permission to enter while there is a tenant there, without the required 24 hours notice.
 
It might well be 24 hours in your case, but I've heard of 48.

The contract is between you and the landlord; the estate agents are simply their representative, so the rules apply to the landlord as much as the estate agent and hence, no they can't give permission to enter while there is a tenant there, without the required 24 hours notice.

Cheers for that.

*sets up cameras in flat*
 
Cheers for that.

*sets up cameras in flat*

Just to clarify, as it might not be obvious from my post. The tenant is not required to be present when the landlord or their representatives enter the property with the appropriate notice, as long as that notice is served and that the notice is reasonable (24 hours in your case).

Oh, even with all this considered I think they still have to have reasonable grounds for entering the property. 'Just having a nosey' isn't reasonable, but 'doing an inventory/inspection' is, as is 'showing round prospective tenants'.
 
CAB or solicitor I'd have thought would be a great place to start.

Worst place to start? Oh, probably a computer forum where people pass off opinion as fact whilst knowing that it can have a massive impact on someone else's life.
 
[FnG]magnolia;20551549 said:
CAB or solicitor I'd have thought would be a great place to start.

Worst place to start? Oh, probably a computer forum where people pass off opinion as fact whilst knowing that it can have a massive impact on someone else's life.

Possibly. I am not a lawyer (I hope that much is apparent!), however I am a landlord, so I know a bit about this, particularly about rights to enter let property.
 
CAB on monday infact.

But I wanted to gather a general consensus of what I thought to be correct in the first place. i.e. 24 hours notice - entering without reasonable cause.

I just don't want strangers, that includes the landlord/letting agents wondering around our flat without my prior knowledge.
Edit: The way the letting agents have conducted themselves, I really wouldn't put it past doing exactly that.
If this is the case, it's a completely different legal ball park.
 
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As mentioned by [FnG]magnolia it's probably worth having a word with the CAB, however 24 hours for reasonable access to effect repairs etc is fairly standard (although the exact period will vary with the contract) so I'd expect something less urgent than that to be given at least the same length of notice period and I'd be surprised if the courts would see it differently should you wish to take it that far. In terms of how much notice they need to give it isn't stated here but the Shelter website might give you a better idea of what the landlord can and cannot do - I'm not convinced that the clause in the contract highlighted about letting the landlord or their agents in for viewings would hold much weight unless there was something about reasonable notice periods inferred as well as simply reasonable hours.

It's usually worth trying to keep the relationship with your landlord decent but that does require them to also be reasonable in what they do. I suppose you could potentially argue there's harrassment if they are consistently bringing viewings to the flat at inconvenient times and with short notice periods but since you're moving out anyway what you might be able to gain from it would be fairly negligible.
 
It's usually worth trying to keep the relationship with your landlord decent but that does require them to also be reasonable in what they do. I suppose you could potentially argue there's harrassment if they are consistently bringing viewings to the flat at inconvenient times and with short notice periods but since you're moving out anyway what you might be able to gain from it would be fairly negligible.

I've been in contact with the landlord this evening, she is rather sympathetic and will be expressing her and our concerns to the letting agents tomorrow.
End of the day, she wants someone in here quickly and we want to get out quickly with our full deposit back!
 
Possibly. I am not a lawyer (I hope that much is apparent!), however I am a landlord, so I know a bit about this, particularly about rights to enter let property.

Wasn't a dig at you, sir. Sorry if it seemed that way :)

If your complaint is that some guy is hacking your server and getting too many headshots then call the internet police! Alert the forums! People should know! Use, oh God I don't even know, twitter or bookface or something. Also, punkbuster or just whatever.

If your complaint is something which will materially affect your life - your ACTUAL LIFE - then you need to speak to CAB or get a solicitor and use forums as an avenue for direction.

So yeah.


e : the more reasoned responses of SPW once again show that I should probably just wait for him to post and then agree with him :)
 
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[FnG]magnolia;20551759 said:
Wasn't a dig at you, sir. Sorry if it seemed that way :)

I didn't think it was. But your post made me wary of posting opinion as fact (or sounding like it!), so I wanted to make sure what I was posting wasn't necessarily being used as legal advice! :)
 
If your complaint is something which will materially affect your life - your ACTUAL LIFE - then you need to speak to CAB or get a solicitor and use forums as an avenue for direction.

So yeah.

This is obvious. Sometimes it's a good idea to get other peoples perspectives on particular "life affecting" situations. This is a good place to start.

Edit: I need to learn to read, I wanted to use here as an 'avenue for direction'
 
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I've been in contact with the landlord this evening, she is rather sympathetic and will be expressing her and our concerns to the letting agents tomorrow.
End of the day, she wants someone in here quickly and we want to get out quickly with our full deposit back!

I suppose it's possible that the landlord didn't know what measures the letting agents would take and how far they would attempt to push things so it's good if she is going to press for them to be more reasonable. It might not help you much but it's possible she'll reconsider whether to use them again for future lets which might help the next tenants.

Obviously you can understand why she doesn't want the flat lying empty so I've no doubt you'd try to be accommodating where you can but there's almost certainly implied terms about reasonableness on her/her agents part also. I hope you can get it sorted to both your satisfaction but it wouldn't be the first time that letting agents are playing, shall we say, slightly fast and loose in the name of a quick buck.
 
Hey OP. I had a very similar experience a couple of years ago. We had been great tenants. We knew the landlord and had dealt with him personally - probably the only landlord I will ever have in my life that was a sound guy. The intermediary letting agent lady was a total bihatch though. We gave notice and immediately from the off was very defensive and aggressive stating that "it's only because I made a boo boo in the contract that allowed you to leave and give a months notice rather than wait until the entire 12 month period had finished" and lies like that. It's just because it meant work for her and she was this landlords main person and she was reaping the benefits of commission on doing sfa for her entire life really. The landlord interacted directly a lot of the time since she was so incompetent.

Anyway, the most stressful part of the whole time we were there for about 8 years, was the final month. Main reason, was rights to access. She tried to take the absolute biscuit. Arranging things at last minute, constantly pestering us and pressuring us into getting the place "professionally cleaned" and "put back to how it was when you moved in" baring in mind this was some 8 years ago and there had been a lot of wear and tear. I was quite firm with her and was as particularly unhelpful as possible. This one time she came round with potential tenants, it was 8pm, kids were getting ready for bed, no possible way house could be immaculate with the notice given. She had the absolute cheek to introduce the potential tenants to us like we were all friends and then was basically like "so over to you two to show them around". She basically asked us to show then around the house rather than her do it. I was like...oookkkaaayy. Kids were upstairs in bed practically and wasn't going to disturb them. Thought we would have a little fun so I showed them round the house pointing out all the bad bits. She would moan at us in front of them suggesting we hadn't cleaned properly etc.

Was glad to get moved in the end. Total nightmare. I would personally just aim to be out when they bring people to view and just hope they don't touch your stuff. It's not nice knowing people come in and look about amongst your home but...that's one bad thing about renting. Hopefuly they find nobody in time.
 
The law states you have to give 24hrs notice. What you must remember however is that in the real world most people call an agent or go in to their offices on the day they want to view. In my experience it's perfectly fine for any agent to ask if it's ok to pop over for five mins on the same day. It's hardly their fault- these people work for commission which you lot seem to think is some sort of crime. Furthermore, if they have to keep telling people they can't come and see it when they ask to, it becomes exceptionally difficult to re-let and subsequently ends up with the agent being in the poop with the landlord.

A big majority of tenants don't like being told they have to go and having studied landlord and tenant law in some detail, it would appear that tenants can royally take the **** if they want to. Not all landlords are saints either of course.

Try and look at it from both angles- the agent is more often than not stuck between the tenants desire to 'keep their rights' and the landlords desire to make his costly investment worthwhile.
 
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