VW Scirocco TDI...buying advice

NathWraith · 13 Nov 2011 at 21:36

Lets talk figures.

Take the power and torque from a Scirocco diesel and compare to petrol.

Now there are two 2.0L diesels. 140PS and 170PD versions

Scirocco 2.0 140 Derv (STOCK): 138BHP/235lbft
Scirocco 2.0 140 Derv (REVO MAP): 168BHP/287lbft

Scirocco 2.0 170 Derv (STOCK): 170BHP/258lbft
Scirocco 2.0 170 Derv (REVO MAP): 208BHP/321lbft

Scirocco 2.0 TSI Petrol (STOCK): 211BHP/206lbft
Scirocco 2.0TSI Petrol (REVO MAP): 275BHP/314lbft

So when both are mapped the petrol is 67 BHP up and only 7lbft torque down. That is assuming he has chosen the more powerful diesel, if not, he would be even slower.

[TW]Fox · 13 Nov 2011 at 21:38

And the clue there is the fact that although it's 16lb/ft down on the remapped diesel, the remapped petrol has more than 60bhp more. This tells us that it will rev higher, and what do higher revs result in? More torque at the wheels.

Flywheel torque figures only really tell you how the power the car delivers is.. well, delivered, not how fast the car is.

Otherwise a Volkswagen Bora Diesel would be faster than a Honda Civic Type R.

Davefran · 13 Nov 2011 at 21:40

[TW]Fox;20558918 said:
By explaining how a gearbox worked I've proved that I am 'dumb'?

Diesels have gearboxes too, what's your point supposed to be. Diesel STILL wins on midrange acceleration.

Lets talk figures.

Take the power and torque from a Scirocco diesel and compare to petrol.

Now there are two 2.0L diesels. 140PS and 170PD versions

Scirocco 2.0 140 Derv (STOCK): 138BHP/235lbft
Scirocco 2.0 140 Derv (REVO MAP): 168BHP/287lbft

Scirocco 2.0 170 Derv (STOCK): 170BHP/258lbft
Scirocco 2.0 170 Derv (REVO MAP): 208BHP/321lbft

Scirocco 2.0 TSI Petrol (STOCK): 211BHP/206lbft
Scirocco 2.0TSI Petrol (REVO MAP): 275BHP/314lbft

Show me the figures for the petrol winning on mid range acceleration then

Scania · 13 Nov 2011 at 21:43

PAz said:
Funny guy

Yes, English BT.

Fair enough - He'd have been lost in a touring anyway.....

NathWraith · 13 Nov 2011 at 21:43

Davefran said:
Diesels have gearboxes too, what's your point supposed to be. Diesel STILL wins on midrange acceleration.

Show me the figures for the petrol winning on mid range acceleration then

The diesel only has "mid range" accelaration because of the sheer amount of torque.

I have just proved that it doesn't have the "mid range" accelaration to beat the petrol.

It is 6lbft of torque versus 67BHP the diesel has no chance.

Davefran · 13 Nov 2011 at 21:44

[TW]Fox;20558955 said:
And the clue there is the fact that although it's 16lb/ft down on the remapped diesel, the remapped petrol has more than 60bhp more. This tells us that it will rev higher, and what do higher revs result in? More torque at the wheels.

Flywheel torque figures only really tell you how the power the car delivers is.. well, delivered, not how fast the car is.

Otherwise a Volkswagen Bora Diesel would be faster than a Honda Civic Type R.

My nephew couldn't keep up with my Re-mapped Ibiza Fr Tdi in his Civic Type R on mid range acceleration. No matter how hard he tried.

NathWraith · 13 Nov 2011 at 21:45

Davefran said:
My nephew couldn't keep up with my Re-mapped Ibiza Fr Tdi in his Civic Type R on mid range acceleration. No matter how hard he tried.

I'm sure the test you performed was very scientific and 100% accurate. I look forward to reading the figures.

Scania · 13 Nov 2011 at 21:46

[TW]Fox;20558955 said:
Flywheel torque figures only really tell you how the power the car delivers is.. well, delivered, not how fast the car is.
.

Agreed.

People mistake pulling power for speed.

Davefran said:
My nephew couldn't keep up with my Re-mapped Ibiza Fr Tdi in his Civic Type R on mid range acceleration. No matter how hard he tried.

I've overtaken Civic Type R's in my 440HP truck with massive torques!

My post is as meaningless as yours alas.

Davefran · 13 Nov 2011 at 21:47

NathWraith said:
The diesel only has "mid range" accelaration because of the sheer amount of torque.

I have just proved that it doesn't have the "mid range" accelaration to beat the petrol.

It is 6lbft of torque versus 67BHP the diesel has no chance.

NO you haven't

And the figures I used were from Celtic Tuning, who only list the 197 bhp Tsi re-mapped to 281ft/lb
So the difference is 40ft/lb.

Tute · 13 Nov 2011 at 21:47

If speed was based purely on torque, R420 would be owning us all.

[TW]Fox · 13 Nov 2011 at 21:47

Davefran said:
Diesels have gearboxes too, what's your point supposed to be.

If you need to ask I suspect you'll never get my point. Drop 2 cogs in a diesel and you go nowhere because yes, it has a gearbox, but it also has a narrower powerband and does not rev as high.

[TW]Fox · 13 Nov 2011 at 21:49

Davefran said:
My nephew couldn't keep up with my Re-mapped Ibiza Fr Tdi in his Civic Type R on mid range acceleration. No matter how hard he tried.

What exactly did you do? Tell him to keep it in 5th and nail it? Of course he couldnt keep up, because thats not how the engine in his Type-R is designed to deliver its performance.

Diesel is one end of the torque v rev equation. A VTEC engine is firmly the other end. A nice petrol engine, often turbocharged, is the happy medium.

Scania · 13 Nov 2011 at 21:50

Tute said:
If speed was based purely on torque, R420 would be owning us all.

What? you mean my 2300Nm of torque won't give me warp speed?

I'm gutted.

NathWraith · 13 Nov 2011 at 21:53

Davefran said:
NO you haven't

And the figures I used were from Celtic Tuning, who only list the 197 bhp Tsi re-mapped to 281ft/lb
So the difference is 40ft/lb.

How about use a reputable mapper then, like Revo who are far better know and trusted through out the VAG scene.

Anyways i found a video for you

Tute · 13 Nov 2011 at 21:54

This is making me cringe. Is this why diesel owners get such a bad name?

[TW]Fox · 13 Nov 2011 at 21:56

That really isn't that great a video

NathWraith · 13 Nov 2011 at 21:57

[TW]Fox;20559094 said:
That really isn't that great a video

LOL it was all I could find from a few minute of google. Gets the point across though.

Davefran · 13 Nov 2011 at 22:02

Side by side about 30mph I was in third, nephew was in 2nd. I even let him call the start, I was pulling away from him up to around 60mph then he started to reel me in after that.
End of discussion for me, thanks.

Booner! · 14 Dec 2011 at 09:00

Hmmmm, I wonder whether I can remap my Scirocco without my company knowing...?

hurfdurf · 14 Dec 2011 at 09:20

Davefran said:
Diesels have gearboxes too, what's your point supposed to be. Diesel STILL wins on midrange acceleration.

That midrange acceleration isn't a real thing that anyone but Diesel owners care about because Diesel is so rubbish they need to invent a parameter to be good at that no one really cares about.

It's like me going on a boxing forum and claiming I could win a staring contest against Mike Tyson in a boxing match, whilst it may be true, no one really cares and I'm still going to get beaten up, despite my pathetic protests of "aha but I have the upper hand when it comes to not blinking!!", which is essentially what Diesel owners are like, but even worse, because at least getting beaten up by Tyson would be entertaining.