Anyone living in the UAE or Qatar?

groen said:
I was just joking. but it would be nice if they just stopped all the non sense and allowed for the qatar and dubai to be fully westernised and independent from the UAE.
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If Dubai was independent from the UAE it would have gone bankrupt years ago. Dubai hasn't got any money. The only emirate with any money in the country is Abu Dhabi because that's where all the oil is. Abu Dhabi had to give Dubai a few billion last year to help it out. Dubai is based on tourism and speculation, and it is just a show of wealth which it never has, nor will ever get.
There is no logical reason for Dubai to turn into a city state, it has no way of paying for itself. It isn't Monaco.
 
But on the map it looks like a different country. I never said they wanted to be like the west, but i was saying we should force it on to area. kick out the government etc. Take the beaches for ourselves. Send them packing in to the desert. Hey if the jews can takeover isreal then we can take over dubai. whos with me ?
 
I live out in Saudi, probably the most restrictive of all the GCC states, to be honest some of the stuff said in this thread rings true, there is a lot of exploitation of migrant workers out here, but they come here willingly as they earn a hell of a lot more money here than they would back home, even with the risks.

But on the other hand I love it out here, where I am right now is pretty much as westernized as it gets, sure there are restrictions but I don't particularly miss the drunken louts on the streets every night and having to avoid some fighty chavs just to get some bread in the morning. I won't deny there are problems but in the big picture its a nice place, the people are welcoming, even out in the sticks and I don't have any problems sticking to the rules laid out, if you don't like it then why would you come?

With regards to the visa issues, I need a visa to enter and leave the country, thats just the way it is, I accepted that fact before I came, we can't dictate terms to other countries on how to let people in.
 
groen said:
But on the map it looks like a different country. I never said they wanted to be like the west, but i was saying we should force it on to area. kick out the government etc. Take the beaches for ourselves. Send them packing in to the desert. Hey if the jews can takeover isreal then we can take over dubai. whos with me ?
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Even if your kidding, your still an idiot.

I was at the beach the other day, wakeboarding. Obviously it was a bit tricky dodging those pesky talybans and shiz, but still an awesome day.
 
Lagmeister said:
but they come here willingly as they earn a hell of a lot more money here than they would back home, even with the risks.
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The trouble is that they are promised something which makes it sound very good, but when they actually get there the reality is much different. Confiscation of passports is (at least, when I looked into it a couple of years back) rife, and I'm sure you're aware of the problems that'll cause. The money isn't what they are promised, the conditions aren't. Many of them effectively live in slums and are bussed into worksites. The little money they do earn is indeed sent back to support their families, but they are stuck in a cycle of destitution and poverty whilst in UAE and other places.

It's a shame, and it's hidden well, but it's there.
 
I know its there, I have seen it first hand and I do find it completely abhorrent, but they still come even though they know it happens, which tells you about where they are coming from.
 
Maybe they know, maybe they don't. I'm sure that they don't have access to The Indepedent (I mention that because I remember them running a large piece about this some years ago) or the internet to do the research required. And that's assuming they have the required literacy skills to read the materials.

I'm sure many people are going over there thinking it's something quite different to what they thought it was and how it was sold to them. Agents are paid vast sums to get these people in, they'll tell and old thing to get them there.

Most probably don't think that their passports are going to be taken away from them, the majority of their wages they never see because they go in rent, and that they will be effectively imprisoned in a strange land with no money, education or escape.
 
Ahleckz said:
Maybe they know, maybe they don't. I'm sure that they don't have access to The Indepedent (I mention that because I remember them running a large piece about this some years ago) or the internet to do the research required. And that's assuming they have the required literacy skills to read the materials.

I'm sure many people are going over there thinking it's something quite different to what they thought it was and how it was sold to them. Agents are paid vast sums to get these people in, they'll tell and old thing to get them there.

Most probably don't think that their passports are going to be taken away from them, the majority of their wages they never see because they go in rent, and that they will be effectively imprisoned in a strange land with no money, education or escape.
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I think you mean this article which the author made a public apology for making up most of it.
 
alx said:
Fair enough, these places aren't the most ethical but they are slowly improving as they become more Westernised. It takes time much like it did in Western culture.

I'd get off your high horse though, I very much doubt you've never worn clothes or bought a product that was produced by slave labour at some point in your life.
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Err not on any high horse just pointing out the poster chose to respond to someone pointing out the well documented use of labour by stating what a fun time it was there. If you can live with that then fair enough but let's not beat around the bush about how all these nice things have been built and obtained and pretend it's all idyllic.
 
bhavv said:
Apologizing for plagiarism does not invalidate whatever information was plagiarised.
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I think we can safely say that there is no slavery in the UAE whichever way you want to spin it. There may be a few cases of companies mistreating their employees but this happens in every country and is by no means acceptable or the norm.

These threads always end up the same way. Daily Mail reading xenophobes think they know everything, they cherry pick a few stories off the net, sprinkle a few buzz words in there about slavery and people having more money than sense and argue against the people who actually live there without having any experience of the reality.
 
Hamish said:
These threads always end up the same way. Daily Mail reading xenophobes think they know everything, they cherry pick a few stories off the net, sprinkle a few buzz words in there about slavery and people having more money than sense and argue against the people who actually live there without having any experience of the reality.
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Mmmm?

Ahleckz said:
Would that put me off going there? No. I used to live there, and my father has said that me and him moving back to the UK was a terrible idea with hindsight.
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Ahleckz said:
Some years since I was there, but I would recommend ACS over The British School if you have children. I went to ACS, my brother British School and my parents and I feel that ACS was better.
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Hamish said:
I think we can safely say that there is no slavery in the UAE whichever way you want to spin it. There may be a few cases of companies mistreating their employees but this happens in every country and is by no means acceptable or the norm.
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US State Department said:
The United Arab Emirates (U.A.E.) remains a destination country for men and women trafficked for the purpose of involuntary servitude and commercial sexual exploitation. Women from India, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Ethiopia, and the Philippines migrate willingly to the U.A.E. to work as domestic servants, but many face conditions of involuntary servitude such as excessive work hours without pay; verbal, mental, physical, and sexual abuse; and restrictions on movement. Similarly, men from India, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, and Pakistan come to the U.A.E. to work in the construction industry, but are often subjected to involuntary servitude and debt bondage as they work to pay off recruitment costs sometimes exceeding two years’ wages.
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Like I said, the evidence is there. The labour laws speak for themselves, domestic workers aren't counted as part of the labour force and their employer is in absolute contol of them. They don't have rights, there aren't safeguards in place. Many of the domestic helpers are kept in a state of slavery. They haven't got passports, they haven't got money, they haven't got the ability to escape. How is that not slavery?
There are also plenty of stories of workers being mistreated, again held without the ability to get away, underpaid, poorly treated and not valued. It isn't what they signed up to, but it's what they have been forced to accept.
There are good things about the UAE, I lived there and I loved the place. There is also a very dark side to it and that has fuelled Dubai's (in particular) ability to grow so rapidly and so large.
 
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The UAE investigate and have closed down some of the offending workers camps, have ordered others cleaned up and made livable, they have fined the (mostly Western) companies responsible and blaming the UAE for what is effectively Indian/Sri Lankan Recruitment tactics is a little disingenuous, that is not to say they are blameless, quite the contrary, but they are also not the only ones responsible, those directly responsible are the remit of the countries the recruitment takes place and the companies that use those recruiters.

As for domestic slavery, this happens in western countries also, one of the main culprits is France, there are numerous accounts of domestic immigrants, mail order brides and au pairs being treated as slave labour. The NGO Committee Against Modern Slavery has reported 334 cases of domestic slavery in 2007 alone, and they predict this is only the tip of the iceberg with thousands being forced into servitude across France, mainly from Mali and other former French Colonies.

The point is that before we start judging others, we should first get our own house in order.
 
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Xordium said:
Err not on any high horse just pointing out the poster chose to respond to someone pointing out the well documented use of labour by stating what a fun time it was there. If you can live with that then fair enough but let's not beat around the bush about how all these nice things have been built and obtained and pretend it's all idyllic.
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Ok maybe I misunderstood your post.

I do agree that explotation of labour is/was rife in these places, as you say if you're fine with it then no worries. I guess the point I was making it that you don't have to look far to find explotation of labour, be it construction workers in Dubai or products you can buy in the UK made in sweat shops.
 
Castiel said:
The UAE investigate and have closed down some of the offending workers camps, have ordered others cleaned up and made livable, they have fined the (mostly Western) companies responsible and blaming the UAE for what is effectively Indian/Sri Lankan Recruitment tactics is a little disingenuous.

As for domestic slavery, this happens in western countries also, one of the main culprits is France, there are numerous accounts of domestic immigrants, mail order brides and au pairs being treated as slave labour. The NGO Committee Against Modern Slavery has reported 334 cases of domestic slavery in 2007 alone, and they predict this is only the tip of the iceberg with thousands being forced into servitude across France, mainly from Mali and other former French Colonies.

The point is that before we start judging others, we should first get our own house in order.
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This.
 
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