Autism, Aspergers, Dyspraxia etc

[[TW]Fox]

because i tried clubbing twice when i was around 18 he assumes im capable of entering social situations and handling them fine.

Not once have I said that.

its not as simple as pushing myself into a situation and then getting on as a normal person would chatting away and having fun , yet he believes im wrong and if someone pushs me into a social situation its for my own good

The other thing I believe is that you simply cannot read, or at least see what you want to see not what is actually there.

I have not stated that if you push yourself into it you'll have an amazing time and be 100% like everyone else. Fact is, you won't. You'll probably never get the same out of a large social situation as any other person will. But you will find a heck of a lot easier the more you do it. Recognising the limitations you have and using this recognition to try and overcome things is the key to leading as close to a normal life as possible.

At no point have I said you can be just like everyone else. The truth is you probably can't, but you can be better than the sit in the corner and wallow in self pity journey you appear to have chosen instead. There are those who are so seriously affected that quite literally no amount of effort will ever help them but these people are also generally not capable of forming semi-coherent posts on the internet either so chances are you are not one of those.

he has no clue about beeing autistic and thinks everyne is making it up, i will never have a normal social life or many friends no matter what he thinks.

I have every clue thanks very much and I've never stated everyone is 'making it up'. I'm simply explaining how its entirely possible for people on the spectrum to lead a relatively normal life rather than just going 'yea well, I cant do that. I'm on the spectrum'.

btw my marriage broke up because i am autistic and my wife broke down in tears when she took me to see my GP about it., you can have her number if u want so you can tell her its all utter **** and im perfectly capable of leading a normal life

Or you could read my posts properly.

 

[Xordium]

Any school should be inclusive of a young person, irrespective of their difficulties. However, if the autism is profound then yes, of course, a label and subsequent support and statement is going to be helpful (not least to secure a place in specialist provision).

What I meant and was not totally clear as I guess I used words outside of the normal context. If the child was excluded (ie kept away) from school due to their behaviour. What may be termed as fair punitive measure for a "normal" child would be unrealistic expectations in the case of the child with ASD.

 

[Cuchulain]

Autism is a spectrum. Aspergers and Autism occupy different spaces along that spectrum. As far as I'm aware you can't have a diagnosis of both.

You're nitpicking, I said various "ASD's", i.e. disorders on the Autistic Spectrum.

 

[Xordium]

Of what?

Aspergers and ASD for example or Pervasive DD and ASD as another. It is rather unelegant but not uncommon.

Edit: That is more down to the difficulty in really getting to the bottom of these things to find the underlying cause. In the same way as before we would have said hmm this child has failure to thrive and poor mental development - whereas now we can go hmm that enzyme is not working there due to an transcription error on chromosome 12 therefore they are not growing because of the failure in metabolism and the brain is suffering from the toxic results of the failure of that pathway therefore it is Whoeverdiscovereditia.

 

[Skeptic]

You're nitpicking, I said various "ASD's", i.e. disorders on the Autistic Spectrum.

I'm really not. If you have been given a diagnosis of ASD (currently the umbrella covers Autism, Aspergers and Pervasive Developmental Disorder - Not Otherwise Specified - sometimes Rett is included but there's a big debate about that).

I'm just intruiged as I've never known of a person to have co-morbid ASD(C).

 

[[TW]Fox]

It seems fairly obvious that fus is a clinician of some sort so its amusing to see people arguing with him about it..

 

[Cuchulain]

I'm really not. If you have been given a diagnosis of ASD (currently the umbrella covers Autism, Aspergers and Pervasive Developmental Disorder - Not Otherwise Specified - sometimes Rett is included but there's a big debate about that).

I'm just intruiged as I've never known of a person to have co-morbid ASD(C).

How it was phrased to me was ADD with secondary Aspergers and Dyspraxia, I guess it depends if you believe ADD is on the spectrum.

 

[Skeptic]

Aspergers and ASD for example or Pervasive Refusal and ASD as another. It is rather unelegant but not uncommon.

Edit: That is more down to the difficulty in really getting to the bottom of these things to find the underlying cause. In the same way as before we would have said hmm this child has failure to thrive and poor mental development - whereas now we can go hmm that enzyme is not working there due to an transcription error on chromosome 12 therefore they are not growing because of the failure in metabolism and the brain is suffering from the toxic results of the failure of that pathway therefore it is Whoeverdiscovereditia.

(again not trying to cause trouble, just enjoying the debate)

If we're going to walk down this path then we must consider;

- Pervasive disorder is no longer a distinct diagnosable condition

- Genetic basis of ASD is unclear (just ask Simon Baron Cohen - the brother of Ali G don't-ya-know)

- Chromosome 12, afaik, is not implicated at present in ASD - but maybe you used that as an example

- Environmental conditions are also heavily implicated in the development of ASD.

I'm just saying that I've not known of a case of more than one autistic spectrum disorder co-existing in one individual. Because, for me that would make no sense.

How can one have Autism (one criteria is delay in, or total lack of, the development of spoken language (not accompanied by an attempt to compensate through alternative modes of communication such as gesture or mime) and Aspergers where one of the criteria is no language development delay?

They occupy different ends of the spectrum of impairment.

Not attacking anyones diagnoses here!

 

[Cuchulain]

Not attacking anyones diagnoses here!

It was an interesting enough read to prompt me to look up asd comorbity, slightly concerned when I read.

"The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (4th edition) prohibits the co-diagnosis of an ASD and attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). However, clinically significant symptoms of these two conditions commonly co-occur, and children with both sets of symptoms may respond poorly to standard ADHD treatments, and may benefit from additional types of medications or from behavioral or other therapies.[9]"

Any idea why it would be prohibited despite the symptoms being apparent?

 

[Skeptic]

How it was phrased to me was ADD with secondary Aspergers and Dyspraxia, I guess it depends if you believe ADD is on the spectrum.

ADD (ADHD here) - Developmental disorder
Autism - neurodevelopmental
Dyspraxia - Specific Learning diff.

It's not whether I believe or not.

If we think of ASD like dairy products - ASD is cheese, Aspergers is butter, and so on. It seems obvious that both ASD and Aspergers are different products from the same underlying base (milk).

ADHD is not made from milk.

 

[Cuchulain]

ADD (ADHD here) - Developmental disorder
Autism - neurodevelopmental
Dyspraxia - Specific Learning diff.

It's not whether I believe or not.

If we think of ASD like dairy products - ASD is cheese, Aspergers is butter, and so on. It seems obvious that both ASD and Aspergers are different products from the same underlying base (milk).

ADHD is not made from milk.

I think maybe we've got crossed wires.

by ASD I'm referring to an Autism Spectrum Disorder which surely includes Aspergers (syndrome/disorder)? So surely ASD = the milk?

 

[Skeptic]

It was an interesting enough read to prompt me to look up asd comorbity, slightly concerned when I read.

"The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (4th edition) prohibits the co-diagnosis of an ASD and attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). However, clinically significant symptoms of these two conditions commonly co-occur, and children with both sets of symptoms may respond poorly to standard ADHD treatments, and may benefit from additional types of medications or from behavioral or other therapies.[9]"

Any idea why it would be prohibited despite the symptoms being apparent?

Aside from my milk analogy ( )

It could be a number of things;

- Where would the dividing line between ASD and ADHD be? Could some of the ADHD behaviours be due to the Autism?

- Drug treatments mad are not that successful in ADHD anyway - even less so if you're giving drugs to try and calm autistic behaviours which will not respond to the drugs

- ASD is a much bigger diagnosis - it kind of overwrites pretty much all other developmental disorders.

The picture is not clear really.

Basically, if you were given drugs to combat ADHD, how did they know that your hyperactivity etc was not due to autism instead? People could be given drugs to 'cure' a 'condition' (ADHD) that they didn't even have. Dangerous ground.

 

[Xordium]

Genetic basis of ASD is unclear (just ask Simon Baron Cohen - the brother of Ali G don't-ya-know)

Yes, unclear but we have leads for example TBL1X-Wnt. I know of Simon's work well as my wife is well known in the CAHMS field which is why I have a degree of knowledge on this. Our highly interesting mealtimes used to cover the wonders of getting your head kicked in from her and the joys of acid/base balance from me.

Chromosome 12, afaik, is not implicated at present in ASD - but maybe you used that as an example

To clarify that was an example to illustrate the point I made about inadequate definition and unknown cause. As our knowledge progresses we will be able to discretely define things a great deal better. My often used point being we are a bit more exact than everyone dying of "consumption" these days henceworth and in time we will be so with these types of things.

Environmental conditions are also heavily implicated in the development of ASD.

Well of course they are I don't think anyone these days it crazy enough to believe in the nature/nurture rubbish and look at developing body been pushed by both environment and genes and further genes that have been pushed by the environment etc.

And as for the remainer of you post - you aint attacking my diagnosis so I really do not care. But given the inexact knowledge available to use what would you do when presented with a 5 year old you can not clearly quantify - place them with one diagnosis that did not fit all the exhibited behaviour or go for the rather as I termed inelegant solution and provisionally cover things whilst the child is developing and further assessment can be made of a long period as an inpatient. I should say then picture in your head the average paeds psych /looks over shoulder to check noones watching ...

 

[Skeptic]

I think maybe we've got crossed wires.

by ASD I'm referring to an Autism Spectrum Disorder which surely includes Aspergers (syndrome/disorder)? So surely ASD = the milk?

The base product (milk) would be Autistic Spectrum Disorders with Autism, Aspergers, PDD-NOS etc being different manifestations of the same base.

ADHD has a different base.

Sorry if I was unclear!

 

[arknor]

The fact that you're aware of your social exclusion, and are able to eloquently explain it would go against a diagnosis of autism. You seem to have it in your head that you have ASD. People with ASD often feel that their behaviour is normal, whereas you are clearly aware that it's not. Just something to think about for you.

Plenty of people with autism are married, have kids, lead a normal life and so on. The fact that you're attributing the marriage break-up to autism is something that an autistic person would probably not do. Jus' sayin.

P.s. everybody is autistic to some degree. What will a label help you with?

i got to the age of 30 thinking i was normal it wasnt until my wife pointed it out after 10 years of marriage and said she wanted a divorce i thought i was anything but normal.
it was her who decided to take me to the doctors and explain everything to my GP, it was him who talked to other professionals and after explaining my circumstances to these profesionals on my behalf they advised him that i did indeed need looking into.

after explaining my childhood , school life etc to a bunch of people in a room for a few hours they said they were amazed it had never been picked up on when i was growing up and it really should have been.

the schools i attended were ranked among the worst in the country and my secondary school was forced to close down because it was beyong beeing saved, i can only assume a lot of this is how i went through a large part of my life unaware.

both my parents worked and i didnt see them much as a child so i guess thats why they never thought anything was wrong either.


once everything has been pointed out to you its hard not to be aware of how you behave and interact with others, i have always been aware of my lack of empathy though.

 

[Xordium]

ADHD has a different base.

Just as an aside have you followed Xavier Castellanos imaging?

 

[Mr Krugga]

It's a shame its such an easy target for ridicule - society doesnt tolerate large scale ridicule of other conditions (infact its often considered a social taboo as many comedians discover) - but its hardly suprising given the overwhelming amount of people who pretend to suffer in order to use it as a crutch for the fact they are just plain old fashioned weird. Much the same as dyslexia I'd imagine, probably 1 in 10 of those who claim to have it on the internet actually do.

It also offers many a useful excuse for all the ridiculous things they can't be bothered to stop doing in life. The guy in this thread was classic - 'Yea I spend more money than I have, never mind, I have aspergers!'. It doesn't turn you into a gibbering fool devoid of rational thought.

Yeah, what the hell is with all those socially awkward people claiming that they Shirley have Asperger's or other forms of Autism.

These are serious conditions and shouldn't be taken lightly because they are certainly not easy to deal with.

Self-diagnosed muppets should be laughed at and cornered into self-therapy because they are a true Internet disease (I honestly don't meet many people IRL that claim to have any forms of autism).

 

[[TW]Fox]

And once you are aware of it, you can use that awareness when you decide how to do things. It'll never make things totally perfect, but it sure does help.

 

[[TW]Fox]

(I honestly don't meet many people IRL that claim to have any forms of autism).

You won't, because they have no reason to tell you and dont see it as badge of honour. They keep it to themselves.

 

[Skeptic]

Yes, unclear but we have leads for example TBL1X-Wnt. I know of Simon's work well as my wife is well known in the CAHMS field which is why I have a degree of knowledge on this. Our highly interesting mealtimes used to cover the wonders of getting your head kicked in from her and the joys of acid/base balance from me.

Interesting! Perhaps our paths have crossed..!

And as for the remainer of you post - you aint attacking my diagnosis so I really do not care. But given the inexact knowledge available to use what would you do when presented with a 5 year old you can not clearly quantify - place them with one diagnosis that did not fit all the exhibited behaviour or go for the rather as I termed inelegant solution and provisionally cover things whilst the child is developing and further assessment can be made of a long period as an inpatient. I should say then picture in your head the average paeds psych /looks over shoulder to check noones watching ...

I'd go so far as to say that in most cases, a label isn't helpful (which is kind of what started me posting in this thread). I agree with you - diagnosis is a tricky, and often ill-fitted, practice.

I get concerned, however, how a 30 year old man is able to 'slip through' during childhood, and is now contemplating a diagnosis. I wonder what benefit, if any, would come of it. Obviously I don't know the situation well enough to fully comment.