Sometimes I'm ashamed to be British...

Maybe you should move then if you think your surrounding area is nothing but crap because you certainly sound like you have a bitter life right enough.

I don't think your moaning achieves anything other than offending others. Your comments don't reflect reality unless you have been misfortunate to live a very poor life in a very poor area. That isn't the majority of people who have to undergo such trauma, and if you genuinely are Scottish that's why things have to get better.

Yes, move, that'll help fix my country :confused:

Well if my moaning makes one person sit and think 'hang on, he has a point, we do have some issues here. And why are the passing a law in Scotland about 'hatred?' Either we have hate issues in Scotland, or we don't need the law, hell maybe even both, then it is worth it.
 
Yes, move, that'll help fix my country :confused:

Why would you want to remain in a hole that is ingrained with racism and prejudice?

If it really was that bad, how could you actually change what was the societal fabric in absolute terms?

This is fanciful if you think deriding is improvement.

Well if my moaning makes one person sit and think 'hang on, he has a point, we do have some issues here. And why are the passing a law in Scotland about 'hatred?' Either we have hate issues in Scotland, or we don't need the law, hell maybe even both, then it is worth it.

We've been here, I've never said there aren't any problems but that had nothing to do with my statement. We are in a better position and multiculturalism is relatively more successful.
 
Sorry for being negative and seeing through all the nonsense. I still think Scotland is a hole and Scotland has many deep rooted problems within society, and i get annoyed when people go on about how great we are and how integrated we are, when really, we aren't. Maybe i've just seen the other side of Scotland, maybe you have just seen yer lovely wee shortbread Scotland. But like i said, if me moaning about the ugly side of Scotland helps make Scotland a better place, then i'll moan all day long.

You can find it as incredible as you want, fact of the matter is i have been a Scotsman longer than you too!

Like I said earlier, you had a big rant and didn't offer any reasons for your conclusions. You just claim that Scotland is full of bigots and racists and it's part of our fabric and Scottish life. That is absurd.
no one will deny that there aren't problems in Scotland, but your doom and gloom views seem to suggest that the country is quickly falling apart (or has already crumbled) and there are no positives to Scotland. Hell, I'm an Englishman in the East End of Glasgow and I'm not as doomy and gloomy as you!

Whilst I now think that Biohazard has got his facts a bit muddled up at best and at worst he's massaging the figures to win a point your approach was poor and a more reasoned request would have allowed us to have a better debate instead of this hostile argument that has sprung up against you two.

I explained to you, what Biohazard meant when he said that the problems in England weren't as evident as they were up here but instead of refuting that you are just flatly ignoring it and think that he's saying something totally different. That's why he pulled out his favourite (sorry pal) phrase: 'strawman'.
 
I explained to you, what Biohazard meant when he said that the problems in England weren't as evident as they were up here but instead of refuting that you are just flatly ignoring it and think that he's saying something totally different. That's why he pulled out his favourite (sorry pal) phrase: 'strawman'.

I'm read it somewhere, I am still looking it'll take a while though keep getting distractions. I'm not masaging anything purposefully anyway, there are problems with the statistical snapshot and the dataset from the contributors. That was my intention anyway - multiculturalism, and there are surveys on attitude towards integration and they do show a marked improvement in certain demographics here in Scotland. Some ethnicities do not adopt the identity but are content beside it. It's all open to error margin and comparison but there are percieved differences in the National identity and percieved threat. Enough to notice anyway.
 
Last edited:
Like I said earlier, you had a big rant and didn't offer any reasons for your conclusions. You just claim that Scotland is full of bigots and racists and it's part of our fabric and Scottish life. That is absurd.
no one will deny that there aren't problems in Scotland, but your doom and gloom views seem to suggest that the country is quickly falling apart (or has already crumbled) and there are no positives to Scotland. Hell, I'm an Englishman in the East End of Glasgow and I'm not as doomy and gloomy as you!

Whilst I now think that Biohazard has got his facts a bit muddled up at best and at worst he's massaging the figures to win a point your approach was poor and a more reasoned request would have allowed us to have a better debate instead of this hostile argument that has sprung up against you two.

I explained to you, what Biohazard meant when he said that the problems in England weren't as evident as they were up here but instead of refuting that you are just flatly ignoring it and think that he's saying something totally different. That's why he pulled out his favourite (sorry pal) phrase: 'strawman'.

I am not saying everyone in Scotland is a bigot, what does irk me though is Scottish people looking down their noses at other countries with ah 'well there's nane of that up here ah tell ye'. Because there certainly is.

I'll try be a bit less angry in my following, it may sound like a rant, but it isn't its intention.

In the past year Scotland has had nothing to hold its head up for by way of racism and bigotry. It has been bad in Scotland for decades now, in the past few years people saying 'och it's great, we love everyone up here' glossed over it and in the past 18 months we got shown up very publicly around the world for what is a shame on our country. And saying 'it's a west coast problem' or 'its a football related problem' isn't cutting it. Nobody learns the hate they do at a football stadium for 2 hours every other week, it is a society thing. And you know what, even if it is a west coast problem (which it clearly isn't when folk in Edinburgh happily get 'up to their knees in fenian blood') that still accounts for more than half the population of this little country.

We have a convenor of an 'offensive behaviour bill' who has been reported for being a racist, bigot and anti catholic by one of her employees, who is pressing this bill because 'things wouldn't be even if we just arrested some folk for the actual sectarian crimes they commit' I kid you not, the answer 'because it isn't even' when asked why we needed the law by a professor of a university in Edinburgh appears in the transcripts of our own parliament.

Scotland is a country with a lot of descendants of Irish immigrants. So to is America, Canada, Australia, yet in Scotland it is deemed offensive when people try celebrate this. Not only that, there are articles in the press saying 'hey why you getting so upset' when 50,000 people start singing 'why don't you go home'? 'It's only a song innit?' Yeah, well i'm sure if it was sang at Muslims, there would be a riot.

Scotland along with many other countries such as England, Wales, the US, Canada has Catholic schools, yet in Scotland they are deemed the roots of all evil. Other countries survive without so much hatred towards them, but in Scotland we can't.

I also had the joys of explaining to Americans why people are marching down my street at 8am on a Saturday celebrating a battle of a Dutchman, leading a Danish army in another country killing Catholics. Not only that, the institution bans Catholics or close relatives of Catholics as members. Try answering 'well don't you have anti discrimination laws in Scotland?'

Maybe that answers a wee bit more about my feelings on Scotland, maybe it did come out as a wee bit of a rant, but like i said, Scots people looking down their noses, should look at the above and really wonder, and think about making a change.

As for my nationality, i am Scottish, Dirty Dog will confirm that, he usually thinks am an uppity jock who should... welll i don't think i need continue.
 
I am not saying everyone in Scotland is a bigot

You did though, that was the problem.


what does irk me though is Scottish people looking down their noses at other countries with ah 'well there's nane of that up here ah tell ye'. Because there certainly is.

It wasn't anything like that though, I was pointing to the racists who call for these people to be removed that they are wrong in that multiculturalism cannot work.

I'll try be a bit less angry in my following, it may sound like a rant, but it isn't its intention.

In the past year Scotland has had nothing to hold its head up for by way of racism and bigotry. It has been bad in Scotland for decades now, in the past few years people saying 'och it's great, we love everyone up here' glossed over it and in the past 18 months we got shown up very publicly around the world for what is a shame on our country.

Scotland generally is a welcoming and tolerant country though.

And saying 'it's a west coast problem' or 'its a football related problem' isn't cutting it.

Problem is, I didn't say that though.


Nobody learns the hate they do at a football stadium for 2 hours every other week, it is a society thing. And you know what, even if it is a west coast problem (which it clearly isn't when folk in Edinburgh happily get 'up to their knees in fenian blood') that still accounts for more than half the population of this little country.

Yes it is a problem beyond the terraces it only accounts for a third of all incidents, but there is a crossover between racial sectarianism and clubs being used as a channel for them.

I've not once said it was exclusive to the West Coast, but a significant amount of it does originate there. You can't avoid that fact either. It is ultimately geographical as the sea for a long time brought immigration between Scotland and Ireland.

Even if the West Coast accounts for half of the population sectarian bigots are still the minority no matter how much you wish to conflate these matters.

We have a convenor of an 'offensive behaviour bill' who has been reported for being a racist, bigot and anti catholic by one of her employees, who is pressing this bill because 'things wouldn't be even if we just arrested some folk for the actual sectarian crimes they commit' I kid you not, the answer 'because it isn't even' when asked why we needed the law by a professor of a university in Edinburgh appears in the transcripts of our own parliament.

Have you got source for this?


Scotland is a country with a lot of descendants of Irish immigrants. So to is America, Canada, Australia, yet in Scotland it is deemed offensive when people try celebrate this. Not only that, there are articles in the press saying 'hey why you getting so upset' when 50,000 people start singing 'why don't you go home'?

I think you are trying your best to pick exteme examples to put together your 'everybody in Scottish society is racist' line to be honest.

Scotland along with many other countries such as England, Wales, the US, Canada has Catholic schools, yet in Scotland they are deemed the roots of all evil. Other countries survive without so much hatred towards them, but in Scotland we can't.

Again this is an absolute claim without any evidence.

I also had the joys of explaining to Americans why people are marching down my street at 8am on a Saturday celebrating a battle of a Dutchman, leading a Danish army in another country killing Catholics. Not only that, the institution bans Catholics or close relatives of Catholics as members. Try answering 'well don't you have anti discrimination laws in Scotland?'

These are UK constitutional and historical issues, they aren't Scotland's alone.

You answer by saying that they are a minority and they do not represent the nation.

Maybe that answers a wee bit more about my feelings on Scotland, maybe it did come out as a wee bit of a rant, but like i said, Scots people looking down their noses, should look at the above and really wonder, and think about making a change.

As for my nationality, i am Scottish, Dirty Dog will confirm that, he usually thinks am an uppity jock who should... welll i don't think i need continue.

I think you are a hypocrite for accusing others falsly of looking down their noses at neighbouring nations considering your own disproprotionate hatred and disdain for your "own country".
 
Last edited:
You did though, that was the problem.


It wasn't anything like that though, I was pointing to the racists who call for these people to be removed that they are wrong in that multiculturalism cannot work.

No i said Scotland was a bigoted little country, as it is

Scotland generally is a welcoming and tolerant country though.

Problem is, I didn't say that though.

Up to a point, but we still have a large problem

Yes it is a problem beyond the terraces it only accounts for a third of all incidents, but there is a crossover between racial sectarianism and clubs being used as a channel for them.

I've not once said it was exclusive to the West Coast, but a significant amount of it does originate there. You can't avoid that fact either. It is ultimately geographical as the sea for a long time brought immigration between Scotland and Ireland.

Even if the West Coast accounts for half of the population sectarian bigots are still the minority no matter how much you wish to conflate these matters.

The point i am making is, nobody is learning hatred at football. And you have went on about it being a west Coast problem. I have quite clearly given you examples of it being a Scotland problem. Also, the East coast has two teams of Irish background. the west has one

A minority of 2.5 million people can be 1.2 million people, still a lot of people


Have you got source for this?
http://scottishlaw.blogspot.com/

As for the 'not even, try the justice commitee 13/9/11 an exchange between her and professor Tom Devine

I think you are trying your best to pick exteme examples to put together your 'everybody in Scottish society is racist' line to be honest.

Again this is an absolute claim without any evidence.

It is an extreme example? Really, how is it extreme?

An absolute claim? Do you not read any press or watch TV? Jeez, even Lorraine Kelly was at it.

These are UK constitutional and historical issues, they aren't Scotland's alone.

You answer by saying that they are a minority and they do not represent the nation.

Yeah, thats the best thing to do, not to actually say i am quite ashamed that this goes on in 21st century Scotland.

I think you are a hypocrite for accusing others falsly of looking down their noses at neighbouring nations considering your own disproprotionate hatred and disdain for your "own country".


Again, if i can change my country for the better, call me all the names you want. You can look down on the English all you want, and i'll leave you to doing that, it seems you are quite partial to doing that. With any luck i have made you think a wee bit and maybe lift you head from the sand, but something tells me i haven't. All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing
 
Last edited:
If this is the video I think it is, one of the guys at work showed the rest of us yesterday. Two things struck me:

i) the chavvy cow herself was either drunk or high as a kite - not that either was a justification

ii) the link we saw was on the Sun website, which I thought was pretty ironic given that the Sun is one of the most bigoted, xenophobic papers in the UK
 
""I also had the joys of explaining to Americans why people are marching down my street at 8am on a Saturday celebrating a battle of a Dutchman, leading a Danish army in another country killing Catholics.""
JUMPURS......Its Ironic then that the Pope funded this Dutchman ??

I think that you protesteth too much.......why dont you come straight out and say that your talking about discrimmination particularly against Catholics and disguising it mainly as racism ??
I agree we have many intolerance problems in Scotland.......but in comparison racism is small compared to sectarianism. You appear extremely vexed about this , any particular reason or experience ??
I notice in you footer you refer to a song based on Irish nationalism/republicanism and the socialist beliefs that led them to fight in Spain.......Irishmen fighting against spaniards glorified in Irish History.....bit of pot calling the kettle black imo.
 
Not really.

Stupid bint. People like this we can do with less of. Drain on society. Doubt the kid will ever turn out much good with that for a mum.
 
The saddest aspect is the poor kid on her lap. What's going to happen to him? Undoubtedly he will be branded as the "racist womans boy".

But, in reality, the apple never falls far from the tree...
 
""I also had the joys of explaining to Americans why people are marching down my street at 8am on a Saturday celebrating a battle of a Dutchman, leading a Danish army in another country killing Catholics.""
JUMPURS......Its Ironic then that the Pope funded this Dutchman ??

I think that you protesteth too much.......why dont you come straight out and say that your talking about discrimmination particularly against Catholics and disguising it mainly as racism ??
I agree we have many intolerance problems in Scotland.......but in comparison racism is small compared to sectarianism. You appear extremely vexed about this , any particular reason or experience ??
I notice in you footer you refer to a song based on Irish nationalism/republicanism and the socialist beliefs that led them to fight in Spain.......Irishmen fighting against spaniards glorified in Irish History.....bit of pot calling the kettle black imo.

It is actually quite ironic that he was sent to do the popes work.
When i refer to Bigotry i am talking about bigotry towards all religions, Catholicism included.
Other than just general embarrassment? Yes
The XV brigade included Brits, Americans, Canadians and Spanish, the Irish Republicans made a small section of it. I don't see how fighting fascism is hypocritical to what i have been saying?
 
No i said Scotland was a bigoted little country, as it is

That's putting it lightly. Scotland's problems with sectarianism and racism are not as widespread as you fear, and there are certainly a lot of lessons to be learned from the inclusive civic society here.



Up to a point, but we still have a large problem

It is generally known for it, as are traveling support.

No one is denying there is an issue just how widespread it is. The truth is the vast majority of people have no interest in these small minded bigots.



The point i am making is, nobody is learning hatred at football. And you have went on about it being a west Coast problem. I have quite clearly given you examples of it being a Scotland problem. Also, the East coast has two teams of Irish background. the west has one

I learnt all kinds of hatred at football terraces as a child so I would dispute that.

Even then that isn't the problem, but the relationship between clubs - particularly the old firm - and sectarianism in Scotland. There is a link and it is unacceptable.

Edinburgh do have teams of Irish background, and there is no where near the level of issue as seen in Glasgow.

I have already said it isn't exclusive to the West, there are very strong pockets in places like Prestonpans which has been known to harbour ex UVF for example. Orange Lodge's all over the place and so forth. You have to tackle where the violence impacts the most.

A minority of 2.5 million people can be 1.2 million people, still a lot of people

Where do you get factual analysis on inbred racism? You can't, you can only look at where it surfaces and that is by in large the minority and not the normal trend.



http://scottishlaw.blogspot.com/

As for the 'not even, try the justice commitee 13/9/11 an exchange between her and professor Tom Devine

That accuses a member of her staff, not her herself. I can't find the quote either. I think Christine would take your accusation quite seriously.


It is an extreme example? Really, how is it extreme?

An absolute claim? Do you not read any press or watch TV? Jeez, even Lorraine Kelly was at it.

You take an article trying to dismiss the valid claims of rational fans about the comments made at football matches as some sort of justification that Scotland is inherrently racist, it depends entirely upon context and while I am very critical of the press in Scotland I can't say it has an inherrently widespread and overt anti-catholic agenda. If it has, unfortunately it is something that I haven't noticed.



Yeah, thats the best thing to do, not to actually say i am quite ashamed that this goes on in 21st century Scotland.

Most people are and I've said as much before I don't think a lot of people could be proud of it but it is the actions of a minority people. This has nothing to do with your accusation, the UK constitutional arrangements are not because of your claimed absolute ingrained Scottish racism.




Again, if i can change my country for the better, call me all the names you want. You can look down on the English all you want, and i'll leave you to doing that, it seems you are quite partial to doing that. With any luck i have made you think a wee bit and maybe lift you head from the sand, but something tells me i haven't. All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing

It's not calling you a name but you are a hypocrite, you announce yourself as of being from immigrant decent and that your wife moved here which you are both more than entitled to do but then complain about others doing the same for the impact it has on you. You accuse me of looking down my nose at others when you deride millions of people you do not know.

Neither am I anti English as you infer, this is just trolling crap. "Grandstanding" to racist ***** about ideology is nothing to do with being against a whole sovereign nation and it's people. Get real.
 
""I also had the joys of explaining to Americans why people are marching down my street at 8am on a Saturday celebrating a battle of a Dutchman, leading a Danish army in another country killing Catholics.""
JUMPURS......Its Ironic then that the Pope funded this Dutchman ??

I think that you protesteth too much.......why dont you come straight out and say that your talking about discrimmination particularly against Catholics and disguising it mainly as racism ??
I agree we have many intolerance problems in Scotland.......but in comparison racism is small compared to sectarianism. You appear extremely vexed about this , any particular reason or experience ??
I notice in you footer you refer to a song based on Irish nationalism/republicanism and the socialist beliefs that led them to fight in Spain.......Irishmen fighting against spaniards glorified in Irish History.....bit of pot calling the kettle black imo.

He's ****** off at British sectarianism and is trying to take it out on Scotland. We have a minority of people that revel in it, but we collectively can't be held responsible for UK history.

Troll much I think.
 
Back
Top Bottom