Caporegime
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- 11 Mar 2005
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So that in 80% of the driving conditions during these months we can increase our braking distances?
Winter tyres, serious size question
- Thread starter ajf
- Start date
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
And it was a big deal. It dominated the news. It significantly affected the economy. Why? Because it was a rare weather event. The English climate is not one that typically lends itself to long term snowfall. We are not positioned in the right place on the planet for this to happen. Prior to the first time snowmaggedon appeared in early 2009 when was the last time so much of the country was affected by it? 1999? 1998 perhaps?
It is atypical weather.
How many of you wanted winter tyres in 2002? 2003? 2004? 2005? I bet the word 'winter tyre' wasn't uttered on many internet forums for almost a decade. Now its all some people talk about. It's become like a religion almost, with anyone who disagrees shunned like a disbeliever with claims of 'How can you NOT agree? At 7c your summer tyre turns into a hippo and you crash!!11333'. Whats even worse is how many Linglong SuperIce people are buying. As long as it has 'winter' on the side it seems it matters not who made it, its automatically super excellent for 3 months of the year and the UHP tyres you'd previous use apparently fall to bits and kill you on your way to a chilly Christmas shop at the Arndale Centre. Continental have finally done some tests and demonstrated the superior performance of a winter tyre against a PremiumContact tyre in the wet at sub 7c temps. The results? A whole 1 car lengths better braking distance. 1 car length. Thats it! And that was between a ContiWinterContact and a mid-range PremiumContact, not a UHP tyre. The same people who follow the winter tyre religion are the people who usually moan that premium brands are not worth it - from Continentals own testing it's clear there is more of a difference in the summer between a Falken and a Continental than there is in the winter between a Continental Winter and a mid-range Summer.
A few times every few years, England suffers in unbearable heat. We don't, as a result, fit every house with mains wired air conditioning. Sometimes, areas of the UK flood. We don't, as a result, mandate every house has an escape canoe fitted in the hall. Last year Texas suffered snow. People in Texas don't fit winter tyres as a result. Often, perhaps more than here in the England, temperatures in the Australian Outback drop below 0c. People don't fit winter tyres there, either.
I'm sorry but it's a fad - a fad made popular by the fact that once in a blue moon they are hugely useful. People have short memories and now everyone in the England is convinced the average English winter is characterised by heavy snowfall.
It's not.
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I take it everyone has seen that TV advert doing the rounds advertising the benefits of winter tyres? This has to be one of the most misleading adverts ever made. There is that woman driving in the snow who is seen to jam on the brakes, then the picture cuts to a close up of the front tyre which appears to immediately come to a stop with no lock up, skid or anything. The shot give the impression a car can stop instantly on snow with these tyres. Surely this is a dangerous impression to give and will likely cause biggers accidents. How this ever got past any advertising code is beyond me. I am fairly ambivalent toward anyone who wants to put these tyres on their cars as it is their choice, but adverts like this must surely be against the rules.
The last test I saw it was a Sportcontact 3 the Wintecontact won against in the wet. We get it Fox that you don't like winter tyres and you are happy on your summer tyres do you really need to keep arguing though, can't you just over look the thread if your not interested. No one is forcing you to use them.
I think he would like some at least remotely scientific evidence to suggest that winter tyres are of any extra value in typical or even atypical UK conditions over and above a maximum performance summer tyre. I don't think it's too much to ask and it all seems suspiciously absent.
SkodaMart
SkodaMart
[TW]Fox;20691633 said:
Fox, i'm sorry, I agree with most of your points and your reasearch is usually flawless, however you seem to be missing the fact that winter tyres are better than summer tyres full stop when temperatures are below 7 degrees.
Winter tyres are compulsory in Germany and their climate isn't that dissimilar to our own.
Summer tyres in winter are an absolute joke, even more so with rear wheel drive.
I think the problem you are having with them is justifying the additional cost (which is a good point I may add) and the fact that a set of steel wheels on a BMW would look terrible!
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As it seems to now be the topic, the reason I chose to fit winter tyres when I did was two fold.
Firstly I needed new tyres anyway.
Secondly as has been written on several motoring sites, they are potentially beneficial below 7C so you don't just need snow to get an advantage from them.
My journey takes me along several untreated roads.
As they were very little extra cost over normal tyres I decided the potential advantages in colder weather outweighed the minor disadvantage in warmer weather.
If I find they had very little advantage this year then I may not fit any next time.
I really don't see what the problem is if I (or anyone) else chooses to fit them.
You could say the same about all the 4x4s on the road - how many ever see mud?! Deson't stop plenty of people buying them.
Firstly I needed new tyres anyway.
Secondly as has been written on several motoring sites, they are potentially beneficial below 7C so you don't just need snow to get an advantage from them.
My journey takes me along several untreated roads.
As they were very little extra cost over normal tyres I decided the potential advantages in colder weather outweighed the minor disadvantage in warmer weather.
If I find they had very little advantage this year then I may not fit any next time.
I really don't see what the problem is if I (or anyone) else chooses to fit them.
You could say the same about all the 4x4s on the road - how many ever see mud?! Deson't stop plenty of people buying them.
Winter tyres are compulsory in Germany when you are driving on snow, slush or ice or other similarly adverse wintry conditions, not during any particular season. It being a bit cold is not a requirement to use winter tyres.
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I'm not missing that at all. Unlike the evanglists I don't beleive that there is a Transformers moment at 7.00000c where your UHP tyre immediatly becomes woeful and any random winter tyre immediately takes on the performance properties of a Pilot Super Sport on a sunny day. Like I said, it's like a religion. People on PH are even making 'Warning! Winter Tyres, shorter braking distance' window stickers for goodness sake
Winter tyres are not compulsory in all areas of Germany.
Absolute rubbish. I have driven RWD cars on winter tyres every winter since 2005. The only time it has been a joke is, as expected, when there is snow. When there isn't snow it's just as fine as it always is. No additional unexpected moments, no newfounded traction issues, etc.
Did you fit winter tyres in 2006? Why not?
Dandle is pre-programmed to disagree with everything i post ever, but even he didnt feel the need to buy himself winter tyres before Continental kindly gifted him a set free of charge..
I think the problem you are having with them is justifying the addition cost (which is a good point I may add) and the fact that a set of steel wheels on a BMW would look terrible!
Both of these are fairly good reasons not to bother when the benefits are slight or non-existent in a typical British winter.
I am not a tyre cheapskate. If I felt I was suffering from less than optimal grip levels on a regular basis I would and have in the past change the tyre immediatly. I got rid of an entirely legal set of Dunlop SP Sport 2000E once simply because I was unhappy with the level of grip they provided. I have never since been unhappy with the level of grip provided by subsequent tyre choices (With, as I am happy to conede, the notable exception of snow) be it the middle of January or the middle of June.
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[TW]Fox;20694067 said:I'm not missing that at all. Unlike the evanglists I don't beleive that there is a Transformers moment at 7.00000c where your UHP tyre immediatly becomes woeful and any random winter tyre immediately takes on the performance properties of a Pilot Super Sport on a sunny day. Like I said, it's like a religion. People on PH are even making 'Warning! Winter Tyres, shorter braking distance' window stickers for goodness sake
Winter tyres are not compulsory in all areas of Germany.
Absolute rubbish. I have driven RWD cars on winter tyres every winter since 2005. The only time it has been a joke is, as expected, when there is snow. When there isn't snow it's just as fine as it always is. No additional unexpected moments, no newfounded traction issues, etc.
Did you fit winter tyres in 2006? Why not?
Dandle is pre-programmed to disagree with everything i post ever, but even he didnt feel the need to buy himself winter tyres before Continental kindly gifted him a set free of charge..
Both of these are fairly good reasons not to bother when the benefits are slight or non-existent in a typical British winter.
I am not a tyre cheapskate. If I felt I was suffering from less than optimal grip levels on a regular basis I would and have in the past change the tyre immediatly. I got rid of an entirely legal set of Dunlop SP Sport 2000E once simply because I was unhappy with the level of grip they provided. I have never since been unhappy with the level of grip provided by subsequent tyre choices (With, as I am happy to conede, the notable exception of snow) be it the middle of January or the middle of June.
so you do use them then?
I fit them because I drive always to Poland in December and it makes my life much easier.
Soldato
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- 11 Dec 2005
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I have Winter Tyres, it was 4C here today.
Cool story bro etc.
Cool story bro etc.
I think you are being irresponsible considering that we could have a sudden heatwave, and as it moves above 7C your winter tyres will generate a negative coefficient of friction.
Soldato
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Always the "what if" eh.
[TW]Fox;20694067 said:
That's what makes me laugh you got rid of the Dunlops because you had tried better tyres and realised they weren't great. If you hadn't had better tyres would you still be running around on them telling everyone they are perfectly adequate? You've never even tried winter tyres yet every thread on them you post in like an expert on how the aren't needed.
Like you say I got my first few sets free and realised how good they were in the cold. This year I bought them for my wifes car because I have experienced the benefit. I am under no illusion that a UHP summer tyre looses out to UHP winter in our climate. Same as a premium winter will be better than a premium summer for a large part of the year.