Winter tyres, serious size question

Dandle said:
That's what makes me laugh you got rid of the Dunlops because you had tried better tyres and realised they weren't great. If you hadn't had better tyres would you still be running around on them telling everyone they are perfectly adequate? You've never even tried winter tyres yet every thread on them you post in like an expert on how the aren't needed..
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I had never tried other tyres on the car before I got rid of them. I got rid of then because of an obvious lack of grip under reasonable acceleration, something that I have not really had since irrespective of time of the year.

People act like they are a requirement when its cold.

Why is your 5 series not fitted with them? It's December you know!
 
The thing i want to know is, when on wet roads between freezing and 7c how do they compare, i've yet to see a proper test (link me if im wrong) that actually tests this.

No one can argue about winter tyres on ice and snow but we see that for a week or 2 if we're (un)lucky so i don't really care about that.

The main thing i've heard about winter tyres is they feel 'spongy' and soggy compared to summer tyres and with all that extra tread and tread grooves i can understand why they'd feel that way. I wouldn't want to effect the handling of my car for no benefit 98% of the time they're fitted.

BUT if they do offer far greater handling, grip and braking distances in the normal british climate (wet and not snowy) below 7c range i'd look at getting some.
 
[TW]Fox;20694523 said:
Why is your 5 series not fitted with them? It's December you know!
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Because of cost if I had enough spare cash it would be, we can also get by on one car if I have to.
 
[TW]Fox;20694616 said:
Sounds like an admission that snow aside, summer tyres are fine.
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I can manage on them same as everyone else but they are a compromise and my wifes car becomes our main one when its cold.
 
sovietspybob said:
The thing i want to know is, when on wet roads between freezing and 7c how do they compare, i've yet to see a proper test (link me if im wrong) that actually tests this....
BUT if they do offer far greater handling, grip and braking distances in the normal british climate (wet and not snowy) below 7c range i'd look at getting some.
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http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/total_tyre_guide/259435/winter_tyre_test.html

The CS3's came last in the wet braking test, even behind the budget winter tyres.
 
Puffs, thread is full of puffs. When it snowed last year for the first time you know what I did? I parked up the 4wd and took the MX5 out. I'm rock me.
 
Shimmy said:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/total_tyre_guide/259435/winter_tyre_test.html

The CS3's came last in the wet braking test, even behind the budget winter tyres.
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That test tells us:

Summer tyres are rubbish in the snow and winter tyres are much better. We know this and nobody debates it. If we subtract snow from the equation (as the sort of snow they tested it on is rare, and it's not what we are discussing) then we see:

In straight aquaplaning, the CS3 scores 11.4% better than the overall test winner, and 14.7% better than average

In curved aquaplaning, the CS3 scores 22.9% better than the overall test winner, and 30.5% better than average

In wet handling, the CS3 scores 3.5% lower than the overall test winner, and 2.0% lower than average

In wet braking, the CS3 scores 20.0% lower than the overall test winner, and 14.5% lower than average

In dry handling, the CS3 scores 3.0% better than the overall test winner, and 3.3% better than average

In dry braking, the CS3 scores 13.8% better than the overall test winner, and 13.6% better than average

The notable differences between summer and winter are:

Summer tyres perform better in straight aquaplaning
Summer tyres perform better in curved aquaplaning
Summer tyres perform better in dry braking

Winter tyres perform better in wet braking

For 14.5% better wet braking performance in winter you must sacrifice 14.7% straight aquaplaning performance, 13.6% dry braking performance and 30.5% curved aquaplaning performance.

These are not miracle tyres. The ContiWinterContact TS 830 P is also pretty much the best winter tyre out there, whereas the CS3 isn't the best summer, and has already been replaced in its own model line.
 
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Housey said:
Puffs, thread is full of puffs. When it snowed last year for the first time you know what I did? I parked up the 4wd and took the MX5 out. I'm rock me.
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Maximum man points to you.

Bet you walk around feeling like hogan after you have driven in the snow without crashing. :eek:
 
fadetoblack said:
Fox,

I am reading this right?

The German rules changed in 2010 and it now says
ALL cars & bikes MUST be fitted with winter tyres
In wintry conditions?
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/safety/winter-tyres-and-snow-chains.html

So in every german region?
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IIRC the rules always specified winter tyres in wintry conditions, just the rule change defined wintry better and it was not defined as "cold" but snow, slush, ice and mud i.e. very reasonable conditions to require winter tyres. If your region does not receive weather of this type then there is no requirement.
 
PMKeates said:
IIRC the rules always specified winter tyres in wintry conditions, just the rule change defined wintry better and it was not defined as "cold" but snow, slush, ice and mud i.e. very reasonable conditions to require winter tyres. If your region does not receive weather of this type then there is no requirement.
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Cheers for clearing that up
 
PMKeates said:
That test tells us:

Summer tyres are rubbish in the snow and winter tyres are much better. We know this and nobody debates it. If we subtract snow from the equation (as the sort of snow they tested it on is rare, and it's not what we are discussing) then we see:

In straight aquaplaning, the CS3 scores 11.4% better than the overall test winner, and 14.7% better than average

In curved aquaplaning, the CS3 scores 22.9% better than the overall test winner, and 30.5% better than average

In wet handling, the CS3 scores 3.5% lower than the overall test winner, and 2.0% lower than average

In wet braking, the CS3 scores 20.0% lower than the overall test winner, and 14.5% lower than average

In dry handling, the CS3 scores 3.0% better than the overall test winner, and 3.3% better than average

In dry braking, the CS3 scores 13.8% better than the overall test winner, and 13.6% better than average

The notable differences between summer and winter are:

Summer tyres perform better in straight aquaplaning
Summer tyres perform better in curved aquaplaning
Summer tyres perform better in dry braking

Winter tyres perform better in wet braking

For 14.5% better wet braking performance in winter you must sacrifice 14.7% straight aquaplaning performance, 13.6% dry braking performance and 30.5% curved aquaplaning performance.

These are not miracle tyres. The ContiWinterContact TS 830 P is also pretty much the best winter tyre out there, whereas the CS3 isn't the best summer, and has already been replaced in its own model line.
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So I can drive upside down at 100mph in snow on winter tyres or not?

If the answer is know I've just wasted 2 billion on my tunnel.
 
PMKeates said:
snip
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He asked a specific question, I gave him a specific answer. :p

Also, the CS3's were the best available in that size afaik. Certainly a good enough comparison imo. People before complained there was no premium tyre to compare with in winter tyre tests, now it's "they used a CS3 and not the CS5".

Yes there are compromises in some areas but that's down to the consumer to decide what they feel is necessary. Personally I always look to be safest in the worst conditions.

What this test does show is that winter tyres are not *just* for snow.

Nobody has claimed winter tyres are miracle tyres.
 
Shimmy said:
He asked a specific question, I gave him a specific answer. :p

Also, the CS3's were the best available in that size afaik. Certainly a good enough comparison imo. People before complained there was no premium tyre to compare with in winter tyre tests, now it's "they used a CS3 and not the CS5".

Yes there are compromises in some areas but that's down to the consumer to decide what they feel is necessary. Personally I always look to be safest in the worst conditions.

What this test does show is that winter tyres are not *just* for snow.

Nobody has claimed winter tyres are miracle tyres.
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The absence of a CS5 or better was not the crux of my point, just a side note that I still think is valid. Comparing the crème of winter tyres to anything but the crème of summer tyres is a little unfair but still useful information.

What the test shows is that snow performance aside, for 14.5% better wet braking performance in winter you must sacrifice 14.7% straight aquaplaning performance, 13.6% dry braking performance and 30.5% curved aquaplaning performance. It's not clear cut to say winter tyres make you "safest in worse conditions" as the summer tyres are evidently significantly better at resisting aquaplane in the pouring rain during periods of sub 7C temperatures. Again, aside from snow, that test demonstrates that winter tyres are a trade off of wet braking performance against aquaplaning and dry braking. Considering it is mostly dry in winter and the aquaplaning performance is much worse there's no obvious winner.
 
Yes, when you have no snow there is no clear winner.

But the opinion of many here has been when there is no snow that winter tyres would be dumb. I'd agree for budget winter tyres, the same as I wouldn't buy budget summers. There's certainly a place for premium winter tyres imo and not just for Siberia.
 
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