First good dumping of snow today in Cumbria

Lots of opinion is based on misinformation and lack of reading, i find lots of peoples views on tyres comical, i've played with some of the ideas they hold and it's simply BS, why save a little bit of money on something thats so important to your safety.

I'm sure you are right but why not just correct what you see as misinformation, provide you own (correct in your eyes) information and leave it to the individual to judge.

If they come to a different conclusion it's no slight on your mental capacity.
 
Last winter was pretty bad in Gloucestershire, the snow only fell a few nights, but it stayed for a couple of weeks at least, and since I ventured down to plymouth, and saw first hand the conditions in a lot of places there, to just say it had 2 nights of snow, as if it all suddenly disappeared and went back to normal roads the next day is highly inaccurate IMO.

Given that I live here and you popped down for the day I'd suggest my account of what last winter was like here is a tad more accurate than yours, don't you think? We had very few days of heavy snow. It was reasonably cold so it did hang around for a while but not on the roads. Infact even driving to work the night after the heavy fall of snow once I'd negotiated the road to the main road it was already cleared. The only area where I had difficulties was the first/last mile from/to my house.

ANY tyre choice is a compromise. It is impossible to buy a non compromise tyre.

If you buy a budget tyre you compromise on performance in favour of price.
If you buy a midrange tyre you compromise a bit on performance in favour of a bit of price
If you buy a UHP tyer you compromise on price and longevity in favour of performance

Winter tyres are no different.

If you buy a winter tyre you compromise on dry performance, you compromise on performance in heavy rain and you arguably don't gain much in wet braking (Sorry but every time I point out braking differences of MORE than a single car length (Source: AutoExpress winter tyre test 2011, Summer control tyre versus best winter tyre in 3c wet braking) I get a good flaming and told it doesnt matter). But you gain excellent snow ability and more ability in icy conditions.

It is therefore up to the individual to look at the sort of driving they do and in which conditions and make a decision on what is the best tyre that suits the needs of that driver. Everyones decision process will be different - because most peoples needs are different.

If you live up in Cumbria you may well decide that for ability to not have to worry about whether you can make it to work along untreated, rural roads is well worth a tradeoff in dry/wet performance. If you live down in Hampshire you may well decide that the dry/wet performance on the clear, gritted Motorways you use isn't worth losing when weighed up against the chances of severe weather.

My personal decision process, which I will share, is thus. My driving is mostly compromised of either local trips to and from work/town or long trips up the Motorway to the Midlands. I have little if any call to use rural roads and value the wet/dry performance and aquaplane resistence a UHP tyre gives me. I've therefore decided that a winter tyre would offer me more downsides than it would plus sides.

Its not even about cost for me - I need a new set of tyres probably this month, and a set of ContiWinterContact 830's is coming in at the same price as the CS3/F1A2's I'll probably buy anyway. You guys know how fussy I am with tyres. If I ever encountered suboptimal grip on a regular basis from a tyre I'd deem it unacceptable and replace it ASAP - which I have done in the past with perfectly legal tyres.

I've looked at the evidence, I've looked at my needs, I've made a decision. My decision might well be completely different if I lived in Edinburgh.

What does nobody any favours is the ridiculous quasi-religious opinion on BOTH sides of the debate, but mostly focused on the winter side. The people who claim anyone with half a clue can quite easily navigate Hardknott Pass under 3 feet of snow in an M3 on Pilot Super Sports are idiotic, but then barely any better are those who point blank beleive that as soon as it's 7c all summer tyres magically morph into a tyre of identical properties and throw you into the nearest hedge. Disagree with this and you are treated as you'd be treated had you said 'Err guys, this Bible...' 500 years ago irrespective of how much rational decision making led you to the opinion in the first place.

So bottom line? Use your brain, decide what you think is best for YOUR needs based on the evidence around you. Don't take much from peoples opinion because when it comes to tyres little is more rubbish than user opinion. There will be people who will swear blind that they can drive normally in snow on a summer tyre. They are wrong. There will also be those who will swear blind they can now corner at the speed of light on the new winters and would surely be dead on the 'awful' summer tyres that 'almost killed them' on the way to buy the winters. They are wrong too. I mean for goodness sake, I read a post from a guy on another forum who claimed that on his way to work after forgetting to fit his winter tyres he encountered catastrophic understeer off a roundabout from his Eagle F1 Assymetric 2 because it was 2c outside. These people do as much harm to the genuine case for winter tyres as you'll ever get, IMHO.

As an aside, my thoughts relate to UHP v Winter. I've no doubt that a quality winter tyre is probably a much better bet than any of the crappy budget/midrange summer tyres. But as I don't use those I'm not really bothered about them.

I am quite happy to rationally debate this subject provided there is a lack of hyperbole on both sides.
 
[TW]Fox;20723067 said:
I've looked at the evidence, I've looked at my needs, I've made a decision. My decision might well be completely different if I lived in Edinburgh.

The only sensible option - although you can't help having a pop at anyone who comes to a different decision :p

I see it as the age old performance vs reliability. If you up your boost you get 50% more performance but 10% more chance of your engine blowing up. That may seem a good deal but if your engine blows up you're unlikely to see it that way - it's 100% for you now.

Same with tyres in winter, you can go for performance and accept that in ice and snow you're going to have a mare or you can trade in the performance for the reliability of not getting stuck.

You might not have got stuck anyway though, in which case you've just wasted your money and lost the performance for nothing but that's the choice you made. You balance it with knowledge of where you live, the roads you drive on and how inconvenient a walk home would be. Maybe you've got a young child in the car, maybe vulnerable people rely on you being able to get to your destination - who knows - it's a personal thing with a million and one factors (not least is cost).
 
Hi there

Well this morning there was some snow on the drive, I suspect the 911 on its MPSS would have been a tad troublesome to get out, no Summer tyre can grip on snow without great difficulty.

Luckily for me I just got in the Jaguar with its Winter tyres, hit the heated front screen and drove away with zero issues. :D
 
[TW]Fox;20723067 said:
Given that I live here and you popped down for the day I'd suggest my account of what last winter was like here is a tad more accurate than yours, don't you think? We had very few days of heavy snow. It was reasonably cold so it did hang around for a while but not on the roads. Infact even driving to work the night after the heavy fall of snow once I'd negotiated the road to the main road it was already cleared. The only area where I had difficulties was the first/last mile from/to my house.

I was there for 5 days.. I have a lot of family who live there, spread all over Plymouth, many of them had snow on/around their estates for many days.. the number of smaller roads under snow for the entire duration of my stay was quite high..

Of course the main roads where clear very quickly, it's all the smaller roads that where a nightmare for many days..
 
What tyres did you end up with Andy?

Well as the car cost me £700 there was zero chance I was spending big time on tyres.

So I got a pair of Dunlop WinterSport 3D for the front at £60 for the pair with 5mm tread left.

A pair of Uniroyal MS 55 Plus Winters for the rear with 4mm left on them for £30.

So a set of legal decent tyres all round for £90 and ones which work all year round.


Car drives better in all conditions but it previously had an illegal Bridgestone on the rear, then some other no brand thing and a pair of Firestone budgets on the front. So putting the branded winters on have given an improvement even in normal conditions. But when the snow does fall I've still got traction. :)


Though the 911 on its MPSS in the cold/wet is simply mind boggling as to how good they are in these cold/wet conditions, though I remember you been surprised when you followed me to Donnington by its wet traction, which believe me those tyres helped tremendously with. :)
 
Surely buying a set with 5mm left is pointless given you replace winters at 4mm? :confused:

Infact you've just bought a set of rears with exactly the tread depth on that indicates they are now life expired

:confused:
 
[TW]Fox;20724116 said:
Surely buying a set with 5mm left is pointless given you replace winters at 4mm? :confused:

Infact you've just bought a set of rears with exactly the tread depth on that indicates they are now life expired

:confused:


Minimum Removal Tread Depth for Passenger and Light Truck Tires

Continental acknowledges in various forms of communication (Internet, technical data books, customer service publications, etc.) that 1.6 mm (2/32”) is the most widely accepted minimum tread depth standard at which tires should be removed from service. This standard has been adopted as a regulation by many of the world’s national transportation authorities. As an indication to the consumer, there are tread wear indicator bars in the main grooves of the tire that become level with the tread surface at approximately 1.6 mm (2/32”) of remaining tread.

In addition to acknowledging the above, Continental recommends that all passenger and light truck tires in highway motor vehicle application be removed from service at the following tread depths:

• summer / high performance tires, all season tires = 3 mm (4/32”)

• winter tires = 4 mm (5/32”)

These recommendations are based upon Continental’s testing as well as real world experience which shows that drivers can maintain the performance potential (e.g. wet grip) of their tires by replacing them before they reach the regulatory minimum tread depth of 1.6 mm (2/32”) This applies especially to winter tires for which winter driving properties such as snow traction are significantly reduced at tread depths below 4 mm.

http://www.conti-online.com/generat.../tire_service_maintenance/tread_depth_en.html

Just as a 'proper' source for what Fox is saying.
 
Well as the car cost me £700 there was zero chance I was spending big time on tyres.

So I got a pair of Dunlop WinterSport 3D for the front at £60 for the pair with 5mm tread left.

A pair of Uniroyal MS 55 Plus Winters for the rear with 4mm left on them for £30.

So a set of legal decent tyres all round for £90 and ones which work all year round.


Car drives better in all conditions but it previously had an illegal Bridgestone on the rear, then some other no brand thing and a pair of Firestone budgets on the front. So putting the branded winters on have given an improvement even in normal conditions. But when the snow does fall I've still got traction. :)


Though the 911 on its MPSS in the cold/wet is simply mind boggling as to how good they are in these cold/wet conditions, though I remember you been surprised when you followed me to Donnington by its wet traction, which believe me those tyres helped tremendously with. :)

Will be interesting to see how these work on the OCUK hill challenge course!
 
On a related note I wish I did live somewhere that got huge amounts of snow every year. It would be awesome and I'd have a set of ContiWinterContact shod 17" BBS LM winter wheels :cool:
 
With the snow last year and my regular tyres, I managed fine all day, going up hills, and going round corners, driving to France and getting home with several feet of snow. So the number of days of benefits for regular tyres = lots. Amount of money saved = lots (though I don't have to pay for anything on my car fortunately).

The only time I could have done with some winter tyres was in France as it was fairly thick and in the mountains where they regularly get snow. With careful driving however, I managed on regular tyres perfectly well - though had to turn ABS and TC off.
 
I had my first sideways moment today in Warminster. No snow though and my tyres were stonking hot, just very damp and very cold road, entered roundabout a little fast in 3rd, accelerated, back stepped out pretty large, dropped to 2nd to get the traction back and off I went. Like a Boss (or some other really crap saying).
 
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