Direct fire, bipole or dipole?

Somnambulist · 6 Dec 2011 at 12:55

I made this thread in Sound City by mistake, oops. HC&HF makes more sense, anyway:

That's my bedroom. As you can see, in addition to my nearfield desktop set up which I listen to on my chair at the computer, I have some stereo hifi speakers I'm working on (yay for DIY) purely for stereo music to fill the bedroom, along with a DIY projector screen also being made, and the intention is to have a 5.1 set of speakers purely for TV/film/PC gaming, which I watch plonked on my lovely Fatsac (which superbly comfy, plug plug plug!).

This will be accomplished via a matched front three (I have a Chunky Monkey TV bench with a space for a vertical bookshelf/standmount speaker), sub (BK or something) and where I need advice first and foremost is the surrounds.

As I've tried to illustrate, the rough location is that they'll be wall-mounted along each side (I may wall mount the left/right speakers as well to get more space between them and the centre), although I have to be mindful of the cupboard doors for the bottom one. Now, the actual question here is, what type of surround speaker is going to work best here given the shape of the room/listening position?

1) Direct fire and try to find ones with wide dispersion
2) dipole
3) bipole

I guess although I will be listening to some live performance type DVDs/BDs, I'd prefer the surround effect to not be too obvious location-wise. When watching TV I tend to pull the Fatsac a bit closer to the TV, when I finish the DIY screen and get round to buying a PJ, I'll pull it back to where it is in the pic, if not further by chucking my chair out of the way. Either way, I guess they'll be more be to the side of the listening position than behind.

Thanksies.

lucid · 6 Dec 2011 at 15:10

The side speaker positions are pretty much ideal for dipole speakers. In fact if you get the right ones they'll be dipole/bipole switchable should you decide to go 7.1 when you have a larger room.

The question for you though is budget. Direct firing speakers start at much lower prices. So, what can you afford to invest?

Somnambulist · 6 Dec 2011 at 17:42

Ah, just the man.

I was thinking of the Monitor Audio BX-FX speakers as a kind of 'start here', which are switchable di/bis at £249 a pair. I know Emotiva also sell the ERD-1 speaker at $249 a pair which do the same thing. Budget is kind of flexible, but given the usage, for example, I was looking at options like the Diamond 10.1 or XTZ 95.24s for the matched front three, so there's no point getting too OTT with the surrounds. The idea is to get good value/performance for money from 'proper' speakers rather than these silly Style packages.

lucid · 6 Dec 2011 at 18:10

The BX-FX would be my first recommendation. They are great surround speakers.

I have used them in a number of jobs to upgrade rear surround performance. They have been partnered with various brands of front speakers and have consistently produced great results. TBH, I'd stick with the BX-FX unless you plan on spending £600-£800+ on the surrounds.

Somnambulist · 6 Dec 2011 at 20:58

Good to hear, guess I'll aim to get them then.

One thing I do definitely plan on doing is going for a pre/pro rather than AV Receiver, as I want something that excels with both music and HD movie audio - e.g. the Marantz AV7005, or the Emotiva XMC-1. Their UMC-1 is now down to a staggeringly cheap $499 but there's not point getting one at clearances prices when it's obvious they're doing it to shift the last stock before the new one comes out which sounds like it's going to really improve on the first model. Hopefully at $999 as the Marantz really would stretch the budget!

This means I'll need amplification for all 5 speakers. I know Emotiva do an affordable yet powerful 5 channel amp, but I do wonder about a stack of 2nd hand stereo amps doing the job for less money (but more plugs), as they seem much easier to find than 3-5 channel amps.

lucid · 6 Dec 2011 at 21:30

Interesting. I went down the exact same route. I had a stack of Rotel amps: 2xRB981 (front L&R), 1xRB980 (centre) and a pair of RB971 (rear L&R). The processor was a Tag AV32R bp192.

I compared these running in bridged mode against running a single channel from each. Bridged just required too much current from the wall socket and it killed the dynamics once the volume was cranked to a healthy level

. Running just one channel from each was far better. It was utterly clean and hugely dynamic at insane volumes.

Since the arrival of kids we don't listen above reference level as much. I have changed over to a 5 channel amp. I have gained a foot and a half of rack space and it's still dynamic enough to rattle fillings up to 0dB

My next plan is to integrate a hi-fi amp for the front L&R and feed the analogue sources to it direct. This will bypass the AV chain completely. Having listened to the best of breed in UK sourced AV receivers I am convinced there's no other alternative. The other option is an ARCAM 888, but I can't justify £4700 retail for something that isn't used every day of the week.

HypnoToad · 6 Dec 2011 at 21:59

What are dipole speakers?

Do they have different dispersion to direct fire?

Somnambulist · 6 Dec 2011 at 22:00

Hmm.

You've given me ideas. I could aim for a receiver with good movie performance, given the speakers I'd be getting wouldn't exactly be big and power hungry, and then just do what I do with my desktop, where my Mac accesses my digital lossless library, outputs it via optical to a desktop DAC and into my Focal monitors, except in this case, stream to an Airport Express via Airplay, connected the same way to another DAC and into the stereo speakers I'm building (they're the omnidirectional Linkwitz Plutos, which have the amp built into the base - see the DIY audio thread for progress).

Somnambulist · 6 Dec 2011 at 22:01

HypnoToad said:
What are dipole speakers?

Do they have different dispersion to direct fire?

Bipole surround speakers have two or more speakers that output sound from both sides of the cabinet. If used as side surround speakers, the sound is output both towards the front and rear of the room. If used as rear surround speakers, they output sound in both directions along the rear wall. The dual speakers used in a bipole speaker are ‘in phase’, meaning that both speakers output sound simultaneously. Bipole speakers create a diffuse surround effect so the location of the speaker cannot be pinpointed. In general, bipole speakers are a good choice for movies and music and are usually placed on the side walls.

Like a bipole speaker, a dipole speaker outputs sound from both sides of the cabinet. The difference is dipole speakers are ‘out of phase’, which means that one speaker is outputting sound while the other is not, and vice-versa. The purpose is to create a very diffuse and enveloping surround sound effect. Dipole surround speakers are usually preferred by movie enthusiasts and are also placed on the side walls.

Somnambulist · 7 Dec 2011 at 13:52

Heh, yeah, decided.

I wanted to upgrade my desktop DAC anyway to one of the new ones with the Sabre chip in. I can run my Focal's from that via balanced XLR, and use the RCA outputs with some longish speaker cable to use my DIY speakers with. That way I should get high end pure stereo performance and can just worry about a receiver that delivers audio/video quality for TV and 5.1. Just means running cable along the carpet but it'll work out cheaper in the long run.