Bike lanes

[Streeteh]

What surprises me is how many people oppose my "go your own separate way on dedicated lanes" idea. It's always like there is no middle ground with you guys.

I don't think anyone is against it, it's just never going to happen in the UK (or at least, not in my lifetime i bet) so it's not a worthwhile discussion point. If they did that, great, i'd use it all the time, in fact i would probably sell off my nice new car and buy a cheap box for the odd long distance journey i do and cycle everywhere.

But that's not gonna happen sadly.

Devil's advocate here, but - why not? You have to pay twice when you have two cars or car plus motorbike?

Doesn't pollute, doesn't cause anywhere near as much wear on roads as even a motorbike can.

 

[George Hincapie]

Why? you have to pay road tax per car, seems to make sense to me, you use the road, you should assist in paying for it to get fixed

If the money I spent taxing my car actually went to fixing the roads then you might have the smallest of arguments. But roads in the UK are utter ****, so you don't.

Additionally, I'm not using my car when I'm on my bike so I'm saving wear and tear. I think the tax payer should pay cyclists for the good we do

Oh, and ban all retard drivers from the road for life while we're at it.

 

[George Hincapie]

Devil's advocate here, but - why not? You have to pay twice when you have two cars or car plus motorbike?

I've seen your other posts in this thread; you're Mr Biased, not Mr Devil's Advocate. Besides, I answered this in my last post.

 

[George Hincapie]

At the end of the day assertive cycling exists because impatient drivers do.

Indeed. The fact is that they just want to get past, they aren't particularly going any where in a hurry. Besides which, if I'm doing 30 MPH in a 30 MPH zone, no-one should be overtaking me anyway.

 

[George Hincapie]

I was in the south near legoland stopped a few cars from some lights when an ignorent cyclist started hurling abuse at me for no apparent reason. Apparently his gripe was that I had stopped to close to the curb and be could not get by. I was not happy as my kids could hear his foul language when he kicked my car. I got out and kicked his bike. That's at far as the road rage got as I pointed out he should have bloody well used the damn cycle/pedestrian path that was provided instead of trying to squeeze past my car.

The above chap was a git, ppl like him give cyclists a bad name. God forbid if you slow them down.

Wow. What a **** you are. I'd have laughed my ass off if he'd smashed your stupid teeth out. When are spastics like you going to accept that road cyclists have got a right to use the road. Do you act like a **** if you pass someone on a horse? No, of course not.

Grow up.

 

[weescott]

Bike lanes are a good idea in theory. But even dedicated cycle lanes separate from the road such as the extensive network in Stevenage are poorly designed. They are at times at a different height to the road so no point of reference and with little or no signage making junctions a bit of a guess. When they do join the road it is abruptly and often after road signs making navigation more of a challenge. Segragated cycle lanes make for a less aware cyclist when they do join other road users.

Cycle lanes should be integrated into road infrastructure properly. As it stands in the UK they are quite often a poorly thought out box ticking excercise for local authorities.

 

[Jay794]

Bikes are a nusance full stop. I went to Amsterdam last month and almost got hit every single time I moved lol, and thats when bikes outnumber cars lol

 

[mufc802]

Cyclists are far, far, far more unpredictable than anyone else on the road. And far more unprotected. There is a reason why no one likes a cyclist tho. For each of you that are good and switched on and actively avoid dangerous situation, there will be 10-20-30 numpties who don't really know even basic rules of the road. And encouraging anyone with any bike they find, without training and basic safety and technical standards to join is just like telling kids not to look when they cross the road because pedestrian has always right of way. It's unsustainable. And that's why it has to be either licensed, or separated from regulated traffic.

I love how you pluck random numbers out of thin air. Instead of wanting to licence, tax (lol) and insure all bicycle riders which cause the least amount of damage when in an accident, why not try to target all the blood uninsured motorists who are far more dangerous if involved in an accident. I bet if a police officer went and checked all the cars in our college car park there would be around half not insured properly or at all.

Most cyclists probably have a car licence already like myself, I just use the car in the winter but I much prefer to cycle everywhere because you never get stuck in car traffic and you are never late unless you get a puncture.

The problem with shared cycle/public paths is that the pedestrians have no consideration for anyone else but themselves, take up the whole path and walk aimlessly in a diagonal sort of way. They are far more unpredictable than cyclists. God forbid the day for pedestrians when all cars are electric and mostly silent.

 

[Jay794]

take up the whole path and walk aimlessly in a diagonal sort of way. They are far more unpredictable than cyclists.

Peds don't tend to serve randomly in the middle of the road though lol

 

[weescott]

Bikes are a nusance full stop. I went to Amsterdam last month and almost got hit every single time I moved lol, and thats when bikes outnumber cars lol

Sounds like you had more of an issue with Coffee shops.

 

[mufc802]

Peds don't tend to serve randomly in the middle of the road though lol

They do sometimes.

I was just highlighting a problem with shared public/cycle paths. I will happily use a cycle path and do when I come across one as I don't go that fast on a bike, but if someone is cycling 30mph then a cycle path is too dangerous and they need to take a more central position on the road. This might hold the car behind for an extra five seconds but who cares?

If all cyclists started to use cars, the cities would be gridlocked and nobody would get anywhere.

 

[BigBoy]

I drive a bus for a living but also commute to work on a folding bike! And I have to say the majority of cyclists in the Bath/Bristol area are appalling! Completely ignorant of other road users and spouting abuse when I with my 10ft wide 40ft long happen to encroach on the cycle bay at the front of a set of lights, with out even thinking about the avarage dropping distance of my vehicle being up to 80ft from 30mph!

On more that one occasion I have been hit on the nearside middle of my bus by cyclists completely ignoring my left indicator that's been flashing for the last 30yards!

As a rule I made it my business to learn the highway code inside out and upside down when it was re issued in December 2007, and now I can quote sections of it at random much to the dismay of many cyclists who seem to think they own the road. Cyclists forget that the highway code applies as much to them as any other road going contraption!

I have no problem with cycle lanes and so forth even two abreast I will give them plenty if space and wait for an opportunity to pass them, but im getting increasing cases of bikes over and under taking me whilst making turns/over taking/ going around roundabouts, this being both stupid and massively dangerous! A bus moving along the road creates a suction effect that sucks the surrounding air directly under the vehicle, 30mph this suction is enough to pull a cyclist under a bus I have seen it happen and only last week a cyclist was killed by undertaking a bus as it was cornering (a good friend was the driver).

CYCLISTS THINK BEFORE YOU ACT DONT DO THEN LOOK UNLESS YOU WANT TO GET CREAMED!

 

[Jay794]

No offence BigBoy, but some bus drivers aren't much better

 

[BigBoy]

I agree, as I have seen many make mistakes, but again read your updated highway code and im sure you would be enlightened as to the ways of buses as they actually have more rights on the road than a car driver!

 

[v0n]

I love how you pluck random numbers out of thin air.

I could have gone for higher numbers to be honest, because with cyclists, there is a specific herd mentality. One idiot encourages wave of idiocy. We've seen this type of behaviour, right? (I like this pic below because it was extracted from cycling vlog)

One guy jumping gives everyone a license to jump. He's ok, I'll be just fine. You see it once and that's how "90+% of cyclists" with "true story, I've seen it happen" is born. I'm sure most of the guys in the picture have driving license and are not colour blind and think they are the smartest cyclists in universe etc etc. But given one jumper, they will be encouraged to jump. And they will. Only one stays behind. Only one chickens out. They will now do it til the end of their journey. And everyone who sees this will go "dude, it's like almost every cyclist jumps red lights". And it will be "true story" and they've seen it, light after light.

And because you soon acquire this "I can do no wrong I can not be caught" assurance, soon enough you will, inevitably, doing short cuts with mexican stand offs and ignore road signs:

And if I pressed you to the wall, pinky swear, cross your heart, the vast majority of you would have to admit there is no way you wouldn't use those shortcut against the traffic regulations, because why would you be expected not to, when what's the worst that could happen. You know you would use the shortcut. And then most of you will argue with me that cyclists are not unpredictable. And that most are responsible citizens, law abiding, blood giving, whatever else and how dare we - the other road users - put you all in one basket. Well, we really have to. As a whole. You just can not be trusted.

The problem with shared cycle/public paths is that the pedestrians have no consideration for anyone else but themselves, take up the whole path and walk aimlessly in a diagonal sort of way. They are far more unpredictable than cyclists. God forbid the day for pedestrians when all cars are electric and mostly silent.

But then again, the issue is - there are no rules for pedestrians. Technically none. They don't have to follow anything. We move around them and they move around us with fear as the only contributor to safety. The fear, was recently moved onto motorists. The fault is always mine. Even if a jaywalking drunk leaps in front of my car, it is still my fault. Even if laws of physics are on my side. It's then "involuntary". We know you didn't mean it, it is still motorists fault. So that's the rule. Whether you'll get your own road network, or use ours, the pedestrian will always have a right of way, jaywalk aimlessly and stop to think or search keys in the middle of you route.

There is this thing, among bikers. After you use motorcycle for 4-5 years you realise you cannot think of anyone or close to anyone, who use motorcycle and wouldn't have an accident. I certainly can not. Not a single person in my entire lifetime. If they were a biker, they had an accident. It's a given. It's the nature of the beast. Fact of life. True story. And they all have exams and a lot of experience, and only move -> <- this much more unpredictable through traffic.

And if we don't build cyclists separate network, the time will come cyclists will be the same - there will be saturation moment where partially because of nature of the way you travel and partially through inexperience of your fellow cyclists people will die in large enough numbers for someone up there will realise setting a man in lycra on a 2 kg of carbon fibre against two lanes of steel, with cars getting bigger and fatter and the space between getting smaller every year is just not how the things should be. Someone will say "stop, this really should not be encouraged". Those of you who'll stay will continue doing what you used to do 10-15 years ago, cycle and filter without blue lanes and taking away road space from other users. The rest, will gradually move on.

 

[mufc802]

I could have gone for higher numbers to be honest, because with cyclists, there is a specific herd mentality. One idiot encourages wave of idiocy. We've seen this type of behaviour, right? (I like this pic below because it was extracted from cycling vlog)

One guy jumping gives everyone a license to jump. He's ok, I'll be just fine. You see it once and that's how "90+% of cyclists" with "true story, I've seen it happen" is born. I'm sure most of the guys in the picture have driving license and are not colour blind and think they are the smartest cyclists in universe etc etc. But given one jumper, they will be encouraged to jump. And they will. Only one stays behind. Only one chickens out. They will now do it til the end of their journey. And everyone who sees this will go "dude, it's like almost every cyclist jumps red lights". And it will be "true story" and they've seen it, light after light.

And because you soon acquire this "I can do no wrong I can not be caught" assurance, soon enough you will, inevitably, doing short cuts with mexican stand offs and ignore road signs:

And if I pressed you to the wall, pinky swear, cross your heart, the vast majority of you would have to admit there is no way you wouldn't use those shortcut against the traffic regulations, because why would you be expected not to, when what's the worst that could happen. You know you would use the shortcut. And then most of you will argue with me that cyclists are not unpredictable. And that most are responsible citizens, law abiding, blood giving, whatever else and how dare we - the other road users - put you all in one basket. Well, we really have to. As a whole. You just can not be trusted.

The thing is, cars and bicycles are very different. Most road signs are put there for the safety of everyone but are aimed at motorists to abide to. If everyone was a cyclist, they could knock most of these signs down as they are not needed, including traffic lights. Common sense is sometimes better than following every rule in the highway code as a cyclist, like non intelligent traffic lights, the lights don't know there is no traffic coming the other way but you do, so should you always have to follow the rule even though it is plainly obvious it is safe for you to go? There are a lot of cyclists who go through red when it is very dangerous to do so, but all they are doing is putting themselves in danger, not the car driver. That is why it is much worse for a car driver to go through red than a cyclist, and the car driver would be more likely to get the fine because he has much more potential to do more damage to others.

 

[Streeteh]

And if I pressed you to the wall, pinky swear, cross your heart, the vast majority of you would have to admit there is no way you wouldn't use those shortcut against the traffic regulations

I swear on my mothers life that i never take shortcuts like those in the images you've posted, is that good enough? Maybe that makes me the exception to the rule, maybe most cyclists do in fact ignore the highway code, i don't have any figures to back up any argument i could make.

What i do know is that the majority of road cycling enthusiasts on these forums do follow the rules.

I just popped to Tesco as my girlfriend is borrowing my car today (she works in central London so relies on the tube, no need for us to have two cars) and i made a point of making a mental note of all the mistakes i made and all the mistakes others made on my journey. This is a very quick and short 7.5 mile round trip:

My mistakes:
I missed a sunken cycle path under a busy roundabout (was really annoyed at myself for this!), but in my defence it wasn't signposted AT ALL until about 20m into it, but by that point metal bollards were blocking me from joining it, god knows why they put the sign there. I looked back while waiting in a traffic queue and the opening was absolutely tiny with faded green paint, basically so easy to miss. This is a point to v0n i guess as it shows how utterly useless our infrastructure is.

Cyclist mistakes:
Two way cycle lane, encountered cyclist with no helmet (personal annoyance) in the wrong lane.

Red light, cyclist bumps up onto the kerb, turns left, then rejoins the road.

Pedestrian mistakes:
Two young girls walking side by side holding hands in a two way cycle lane, the pedestrian footpath was right next to this. I haven't yet bought a bell that fits my new bike so i slowed right down and politely asked if i could get past them. Made them both jump which i felt quite guilty about as they're young and little mistakes like that are to be expected. Would like to stress though that at no point did i appear aggressive towards them, made a point of being very polite.

Slightly behind a small car on a narrow rural street, he was slowing frequently for speed bumps so for safety i was trailing him at a comfortable distance. Pedestrian turns quickly from footpath and crossed after car had passed without any indication he was planning to cross but failed to see me. He jumped out of the way when i heard my disk brakes slam on (still bedding in so they're very loud). Good reactions by him to be fair, though if he was slower we would have ended up in a heap on the ground. Issue i have with this is that he didn't look like he was planning on crossing at all, so there was nothing i could do to prepare for it.

Motorist mistakes:
Two very close overtakes, one of which i'm certain the wingmirror grazed my knee. The latter of which, somewhat ironically, i was in a cycle lane.

Car turning right across the road, failed to see me, fortunately i predicted this happening so managed to stop safely. Wasn't pleased as it was uphill and i was stuck in a high gear which is always a nightmare to get rolling again with.

Me turning right at a mini round-about, signalled very obviously with my shiny gloves that MJ himself would be proud of. Halfway around a car going straight on decided to pull out in-front of me causing me to slam on the anchors. Not entirely sure what she was up to as she seemed to wait until just the right moment to make things as scary as possible for me without killing me. May or may not have sarcastically shouted 'Thank-you!' at her, feel a little silly about that but she scared me good and proper.


Conclusion? Humans a morons? Dunno, inconclusive.

Tempted to keep a log of all infractions over the course of a year of cycling, i found it quite an interesting way to pass the time on that journey actually!

[EDIT] Ooooh, forgot one!

Motorist mistake:
Tesco car park. Car turns into one-way only lane the wrong way, then toots her horn at me for going in the correct direction. She was REALLY fat though so the jokes on her, fatty.

 

[Jay794]

I agree, as I have seen many make mistakes, but again read your updated highway code and im sure you would be enlightened as to the ways of buses as they actually have more rights on the road than a car driver!

In my experience, buses pull out on cars all the time instead of waiting to be flashed. Not that I'm saying you do or anything. But we're all as bad as eachother lol

 

[Nexus]

There's no point in posting pictures of Cyclists doing things wrong because we can just as easily post ones of Motorists doing the same.

I don't jump red lights and I think it's irresponsible, especially those who don't give way to pedestrians crossing. Ultimately I still fail to understand why this is the biggest sore point for Motorists as it doesn't effect them.

 

[willhub]

Buses are always doing stupid stuff.

Today in the space of 8 miles, 3 buses passed me too close, one pulled out before I got past when it was my right to pass.

Buses never indicate, they pull up to bus stops at about 30mph then slam on, they indicate almost at the point they stop, they should indicate well in advance.

A driver was far too close to my rear wheel, clearly trying to box me in.

Had about 3 cars in the space of 30 seconds pull out in front of me.