VW recall - Injectors on PD140 and PD170s

lordrobs said:
Not sure how much is hype but there seem to have been way too many cases of these failing at motorway speeds leaving you with no power steering and limited brake servo assistance :eek:
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That's exactly what happened to my mates Leon FR PD170. Six months out outside warranty at around 32k. SEAT refused goodwill which left him with a £700+ bill for a *single* injector. I told him to kick and scream at the time as it was a known issue with with Audi's, but he just wanted the car back quick.

After checking the price on a third party warranty he jettisoned the car a couple of months later.

Forget this modern technology, I'm sticking with a tractor-tech PD130. :D
 
Mud said:
Yeah, pretty sure this is limited to the PD170 only, as per this thread: http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/197422-vag-170-ps-diesel-injector-failures-vosa-action/

I've got a PD140, and I believe the Bosch type injectors are fine, it's the Siemens ones in the 170 that are particularly bad.
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Load of tosh.

The problem is far worse on the 140 than the 170.

I had mine replaced about 3 months back FOC long before any "recall" - its not actually a recally anyway, its a gesture of goodwill IF you ask, they arent notifying all customers and wont chase then down like a proper recall.
 
TRNC said:
Actually they cost more than that and you cant get them from any OE suppliers, only VW direct.
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If that's the case then why are they so expensive?

Are they not like a typical injector or some new kind of technology. I'd really like to know why VW think they can charge so much for them?
 
Wouldnt we all!!!!!

I have no idea, they are "standard" piezo injectors but VW charge the earth and once one goes its almost certain the others will soon fail too, also removing one disturbs the loom which then fails so its best to replace all 4 at once with loom othewise the bills are obscene! Labour wise it takes them a full day to do from start to finish and fuel economy isnt improved!!!! (awaits Fox's comment about mpggggg's, tractor engines and general anti-diesel trolling :rolleyes:)
 
Is there such a thing as standard piezo PD injector? VAG were the main developer/user of Pump Deuse. The PD170 injectors were special and not made by Bosch as per the previous types. Siemens I think it was.

PD uses the camshaft to generate the pressure for a start, they're nothing like a petrol engine injector.

I'll get my mate to phone SEAT tomorrow. I reckon he's due a £700 refund, which should make Christmas a little better for him...
 
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TRNC said:
Wouldnt we all!!!!!

I have no idea, they are "standard" piezo injectors but VW charge the earth and once one goes its almost certain the others will soon fail too, also removing one disturbs the loom which then fails so its best to replace all 4 at once with loom othewise the bills are obscene! Labour wise it takes them a full day to do from start to finish and fuel economy isnt improved!!!! (awaits Fox's comment about mpggggg's, tractor engines and general anti-diesel trolling :rolleyes:)
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I'm really quite lost now.

Injectors cost about £50-£100 each to buy as a consumer. Not a fair comparison as Ford parts are cheap but 8 60lb high flow injectors cost me £300 on the Mustang for all 8 :)

On most cars changing injectors is just a little more work than changing plugs really and why on earth would you need a new wiring loom?

Is the car badly designed or a right pig to work on or something?
 
Piezo injectors are common as muck, even if only VW used them (which isnt the case) there would be hundreds of millions out there!!

Your mate will have a job getting anything out of SEAT, he will probably have to take it up in court against SEAT customer services to make progress and even then its not a done deal!

EDIT: Gibbo - I'm not sure why it takes so long, they arent the easiest things to remove and theres more to it on a diesel than a petrol. VAG are onto a good thing, or were, selling injectors at £700+++ a pop to people with dodgy ones! The wiring loom is needed because its fragile, anything in that environment will suffer from degredation due to heat, oil etc. and the connections become dodgy, probably because of design by accountants rather than engineers.
 
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TRNC said:
Piezo injectors are common as muck, even if only VW used them (which isnt the case) there would be hundreds of millions out there!!

Your mate will have a job getting anything out of SEAT, he will probably have to take it up in court against SEAT customer services to make progress and even then its not a done deal!

EDIT: Gibbo - I'm not sure why it takes so long, they arent the easiest things to remove and theres more to it on a diesel than a petrol. VAG are onto a good thing, or were, selling injectors at £700+++ a pop to people with dodgy ones! The wiring loom is needed because its fragile, anything in that environment will suffer from degredation due to heat, oil etc. and the connections become dodgy, probably because of design by accountants rather than engineers.
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But these are new cars, most less than 6yr old?

Amazed the wiring/loom must be so fragile and I thought VW made quality cars which in my view also means good quality reliable components under the hood.
 
2007/08 mostly. They changed to Common Rail from 2009 onwards depending on brand and model.

Take a look at that link I posted above to see how they work. As I stated previously PD injectors are driven off the cam therefore it involves delving around in the cylinder head.
 
Gibbo said:
I'm really quite lost now.

Injectors cost about £50-£100 each to buy as a consumer. Not a fair comparison as Ford parts are cheap but 8 60lb high flow injectors cost me £300 on the Mustang for all 8 :)

On most cars changing injectors is just a little more work than changing plugs really and why on earth would you need a new wiring loom?

Is the car badly designed or a right pig to work on or something?
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Its a diesel injector working on a rail pressure hundreds times higher than a simple port injection petrol unit. Its not even on the same page in terms of the function of the part.
 
The replacement maybe a different supplier with a different connector, hence the loom change. And people say hybrids are complicated.... Lol.
 
Gibbo said:
But these are new cars, most less than 6yr old?

Amazed the wiring/loom must be so fragile and I thought VW made quality cars which in my view also means good quality reliable components under the hood.
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Generally late 2005/early 2006 through to 2009 (and later in some VAG brands)

The engineers do a good job and design great vehicles with good quality componants, then the accounts get involved and great design becomes crap as they say that x,y,z mustnt cost more than 20% of the original intended design cost and hence you end up with crap like the injector loom.

It happens throughout engineering, even in really critical parts and on things like aeroplanes :eek:
 
Gibbo said:
But these are new cars, most less than 6yr old?

Amazed the wiring/loom must be so fragile and I thought VW made quality cars which in my view also means good quality reliable components under the hood.
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VW dont make high pressure diesel injectors. They buy them in. They are miles more complex than the injectors in your car or my car despite our cars being more powerful.
 
TRNC said:
Load of tosh.

The problem is far worse on the 140 than the 170.

I had mine replaced about 3 months back FOC long before any "recall" - its not actually a recally anyway, its a gesture of goodwill IF you ask, they arent notifying all customers and wont chase then down like a proper recall.
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No so, was in Seat today getting my free coil packs for my Leon TFSI and was speaking to the service guy, letters will be going out to PD170 owners who are effected.

Edit: Should also say, I just phoned up my local Seat dealer and mentioned coil packs, he knew what to do and I just went by one afternoon and they changed them, zero hassle.
 
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