[insert cliched and cheesy cheap shot title here]

PermaBanned said:
Well no, we are able to judge morals for ourselves.
Click to expand...

Sadly while this might be true for you, me and... well at least most on this forum. It is certainly not true for everyone.

Are you really going to try and argue that the Bible is not a good moral code? :rolleyes:

I would argue that religion is just one way of getting across your "human deceny" values to a wider audience, no?

At the end of the day it doesnt really matter whether moral values come from religious beliefs or simple human decency. The label matters not surely?

/Salsa
 
PermaBanned said:
Well no, we are able to judge morals for ourselves. If anything religion is detrimental to that fact.
Click to expand...

Given the state society is in right now with absolutely no morals left, how can you say that.

The further this country has drifted away from religion the worse it has got. What is wrong with the Christian values i mentioned.

fidelity in marriage: "Whom God has joined together let no man put asunder"

renunciation of worldly goods: "Gather not your riches up upon this earth, for there your heart will be also",

renunciation of violence: "If a man strikes you on one cheek, turn the other cheek",

forgiveness of sins: "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us",

unconditional love: "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you".
 
Well morals are morals, yes. But if you "get" those morals from religion then you have to look at everything else you're getting included in the package as well.
 
PermaBanned said:
Well morals are morals, yes. But if you "get" those morals from religion then you have to look at everything else you're getting included in the package as well.
Click to expand...

I think the good in this case overrides the bad.

Just look at the last 100 years or so. The "English Gentleman" was the stereo typical image of Britain around the world. My next door neighbour, who lived through WW2, is the classiest lady you will ever meet. People of that generation had the upmost respect and morals. As you gradually go through time, the 60s/70s/80s etc as religion has become a less and less dominant figure in society the morals have plummeted. Have you seen today’s advertisements? Basically naked women/men prancing around, 60yrs ago that would not have been morally accepted. We have tried this "no religion" stuff and has miserably failed, just look at world society. Look at what’s happening in the UK, people don’t give a **** these days.
 
Just to play devils advocate Crater. There has also been an indordinate ammount of bad stuff been done in the name of religion too. But I think that is probably a whole other topic which would likely just end up locked.

Perma im not sure where you are trying to go with this. You certainly seem to be setting the scene for the god squad to role on up in here and start a crusade and this just becomes another lolreligion thread :(

/Salsa
 
Salsa i completely agree with you that religion is responsible for some of the worst atrocities in human history. I believe that lies from man straying too far away from religion, man using religion for their own gain.

If religion is applied with some common sense i think it could do the UK worlds of good. Like i said earlier just look at the UK 60/70 years ago, religion applied sensibly.
 
Craterloads said:
What is wrong with the Christian values i mentioned.

1. fidelity in marriage: "Whom God has joined together let no man put asunder"

2. renunciation of worldly goods: "Gather not your riches up upon this earth, for there your heart will be also",

3. renunciation of violence: "If a man strikes you on one cheek, turn the other cheek",

4. forgiveness of sins: "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us",

5. unconditional love: "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you".
Click to expand...
Absolutely nothing wrong with 1 and 2 in my view, if only more people practiced them including the politicians who claim they are Christian.

3, 4 and 5 seem like rules dreamt up by those who would abuse their positions and expect no come back.

Law, morality, religion, are to him so many bourgeois prejudices, behind which lurk in ambush just as many bourgeois interests.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
PermaBanned said:
Oh, so you can moderate religion based on your own moral code? Remind me, why do we have to have religion in the first place?
Click to expand...

Religion can lay the foundations, for example the values i provided above.

How i see it is we have seen where this "no religion" in society/politics/morals has taken this country. It hasnt worked, it was better when there was larger religious presence.
 
Crater you could argue that if simply common sense was applied then it would do the UK a world of good. If religion helps to increase the number of people who hold certain moral vales then great no problem.

Personally I couldn't care less where someone's morals stem from as long as they have some.


Also PB I decided your issue with religion is the same as your issue with Microsoft. Ostensibly you agree with what they are selling just not all the extra stuff that is bundled with it.

/Salsa
 
Last edited:
Salsa said:
Also PB I decided your issue with religion is the same as your issue with Microsoft. Ostensibly you agree with what they are selling just not all the extra stuff that is bundled with it.

/Salsa
Click to expand...

Interesting point. Does the license count as part of the 'bundle' :p

I shall have to reconsider this in the morning ;)
 
Craterloads said:
In modern history the UK has been and is as a Christian country. Even though I’m not Christian but i have no problems with this.

One point i would like to make is maybe society would improve if the UK went back to its Christian heritage. The farther this country has gotten from religion the worse society has got. Atheism is the largest it has ever been in modern history and the state society is now in correlates.

All you see these days is scantily clad women, drug use, and disrespect of elders etc , which good Christian values would help eradicate.
Click to expand...

I suggest you gain some knowledge of history.

The UK today is a vastly better place than any of the countries on it were when they were dominated by Christianity. Even the most superficial knowledge of our history would tell you that.

If you're really interested in going back to the religious heritage of this country, why are you picking such a recent religion? That's not what "heritage" means. If "heritage" is what you actually meant, you'd be promoting upper palaeolithic British religions, or at least mesolithic British religions...and good luck finding out what they were.
 
Craterloads said:
In modern history the UK has been and is as a Christian country. Even though I’m not Christian but i have no problems with this.

One point i would like to make is maybe society would improve if the UK went back to its Christian heritage. The farther this country has gotten from religion the worse society has got. Atheism is the largest it has ever been in modern history and the state society is now in correlates.

All you see these days is scantily clad women, drug use, and disrespect of elders etc , which good Christian values would help eradicate.
Click to expand...

"In the name of good christian tolerance and love I demand you wear more clothes and put that spliff out or, or, or...... oh well, I forgive you..." :rolleyes:
 
PermaBanned said:
Oh, so you can moderate religion based on your own moral code? Remind me, why do we have to have religion in the first place?
Click to expand...

People use religion for support through life, it's a great thing when kept on a personal basis. I don't believe it serves any purpose beyond that and has no place anywhere beyond the persons mind, certainly not in politics.

RDM said:
Since when did we want to eradicate scantily clad women?
Click to expand...

My exact thought when I read it. If this is going to happen then we need another holy war.
 
I will not be voting Tory in the future and none of the other main parties. I would vote pirate party if I could , though there is little to no point as it will be a wasted vote.
I personally just think he is a cultural Christian and does not have any faith, if that makes sense.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom