Biofuel Timebomb for older cars.

Dr Who

Dr Who

Dr Who

Soldato
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E10 has been the norm in Oz for years. The vast majority of cars on the road at the moment will be fine with it.
 
They will mark the E10 up on the forecourt. They aren't going to willingly destroy older cars. E5 isn't going away.
 
Glaucus said:
Absolutely no different to the ban on lead.
Over reaction for nothing. If your car will have issue find a solution.
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Except with Lead they could use an additive, there is no additive to solve the E10 issue. So A LOT different to the ban on lead then.
 
Firestar_3x said:
It's strange that the 2.0FSI is on the list yet i couldn't see the 1.8T listed.
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I'm guessing it's down to the seals in the high pressure direct injectors, which the 1.8T didn't have. Makes the most logical sense seeing as they are pretty technologically similar beyond the direct injection.


Glaucus said:
I'm sure there is some additive that can be used and someone will start selling it.
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Except the additive for unleaded fuel just gave the older engines a replacement for the lubricating properties of the lead. With E10 fuels, it's the chemical composition that is potentially destroying seals (and therefore engines), so your "additive" would need to chemically alter the biofuel, keep the same calorific values of the fuel, and also play safe with the seals. A pretty tall order, and one that isn't likely to be cheap, even if technically possible.
 
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Rilot said:
They will mark the E10 up on the forecourt. They aren't going to willingly destroy older cars. E5 isn't going away.
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They'll do what they're obliged to do, they won't be required to mark it - so why would they?

Glaucus said:
I'm sure there is some additive that can be used and someone will start selling it.
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The issue is corrosion.. you'd have to put in something that'd chemically change the biofuel element of the fuel.. not easy without wrecking the fuel as a whole?
 
GeX said:
The issue is corrosion.. you'd have to put in something that'd chemically change the biofuel element of the fuel.. not easy without wrecking the fuel as a whole?
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why would it wreck the fuel as a whole.
It's very similar to lead which was a lubricant and so you got added wear without it.

Even the article says as yet. I don't see hwy its technically impossible and. There's money to be made. Someone will release something.
Also it's not a done deal, the department is looking at changing the rules on naming and it doesn't mean all companies won't let you know. So you might for the next few years buy at spcertain per petrol stations that either name or let you know on the website.

As said by 2020 we have commitments and there's no choice.

It really is a non issue and just like lead you will be restricted to certain garages.
 
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Glaucus said:
why would it wreck the fuel as a whole.
It's very similar to lead which was a lubricant and so you got added wear without it.
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It really isn't similar at all. The additive for unleaded was exactly that an ADDitive, it ADDed a replacement for lead, didn't have to chemically react with the fuel, and didn't add anything that could potentially make the situation worse.

With E10, the situation is vastly different, as you only want to change (not add to) the 10% biofuel portion of the make-up of the fuel. You need to do this in such a way that it negates whatever was causing it to be incompatible, whilst still leaving it as a "fuel" and not just a dead liquid suspended in your now watered down petrol.
 
paradigm said:
It really isn't similar at all. The additive for unleaded was exactly that an ADDitive, it ADDed a replacement for lead, didn't have to chemically react with the fuel, and didn't add anything that could potentially make the situation worse.

With E10, the situation is vastly different, as you only want to change (not add to) the 10% biofuel portion of the make-up of the fuel. You need to do this in such a way that it negates whatever was causing it to be incompatible, whilst still leaving it as a "fuel" and not just a dead liquid suspended in your now watered down petrol.
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Or use an additive that protects the part, it doesn't have to change it.
Anyway read my edited post above. Oh and the full article in the op.
 
I read that super unleaded won't be effected by this, is that true?

Also don't some supermarket fuels use ethanol as an octane booster, Tesco99 for example? If so would a bio ethanol content of 10% rather than 5% make that much of a difference compared to filling up with a tank of Momentum99?
 
Glaucus said:
Or use an additive that protects the part, it doesn't have to change it.
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Either I'm being a bit slow or you aren't understanding the potential problem?

Either way I can't see this being insta death for affected engines, maybe a slightly lower life cycle on certain parts though?
 
Glaucus said:
Or use an additive that protects the part, it doesn't have to change it.
Anyway read my edited post above. Oh and the full article in the op.
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And how exactly do you propose to "protect" the incredibly tiny seals in high pressure direct injection fuel injectors by adding something to a moving liquid?

The only way would be to chemically negate whatever reaction could be caused by the bioethanol, and to do that would involve chemical alteration to the fuel.

We get it, your car is fine, you don't care, but some of us look at the bigger picture (my engines are fine by the way).
 
paradigm said:
And how exactly do you propose to "protect" the incredibly tiny seals in high pressure direct injection fuel injectors by adding something to a moving liquid?

The only way would be to chemically negate whatever reaction could be caused by the bioethanol, and to do that would involve chemical alteration to the fuel.

We get it, your car is fine, you don't care, but some of us look at the bigger picture (my engines are fine by the way).
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Are you a chemical engineer? So how do you know it's the only way.
You can add stuff that protects surfaces, within a liquid. What is exactly needed no idea. But if it's an issue people will be working on it.

The bigger picture of going back to checking the pumps and or with the companies on what fuel they have. Just like when leaded was phased out garages specifically advertised leaded pumps and you had to use a select few.
 
paradigm said:
I'm guessing it's down to the seals in the high pressure direct injectors, which the 1.8T didn't have. Makes the most logical sense seeing as they are pretty technologically similar beyond the direct injection.
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Good point, must be what the seals are made out of not being compatible, after a short time i expect it will leak like a sieve.

Other than changing them out i can't see any way to 'add' anything to the fuel to stop this.
 
I saw this the other day on pistonheads and I a little concerned about how it will affect my GT6. Of course E10 will be phased in slowly so I don't think it will be too much of an issue to begin with. On the plus side it looks like there have already been some additives developed for it already

http://www.millersoils.net/1_Millers_frame_CLASSIC.htm

Not sure how well they will work though.
 
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