Impulse buy - TZ18 - good choice for a novice?

[An Exception]

I've not idea what are on about most of the time. You talked about the importance of sensor size and it's relationship with IQ and then go on to say an iPhone with a sensor that I imagine is about the size of 3 molecules has similar image quality to an APSC dSLR.

"For snapshot purposes, the iPhone 4S is comparable to the 8MP Canon 20D when it comes to image quality. But that comparison is a little unfair—you can easily achieve better results with newer DSLRs in terms of exposure, noise, and megapixel count. What you can't do with any DSLR, though, is (again) slip it into your pants pocket. Lenses that have as bright an aperture as the iPhone 4S's f/2.4 will also either be limited to a single focal length or generally be much larger and heavier than the lightweight kit lenses that many users have."

http://arstechnica.com/apple/guides...lace-a-real-digital-camera-for-many-yes.ars/4

Also 20D has the same sensor as the 30D.

And apparently the TZ18 is crap because it has a tiny sensor but it's probably got a bigger sensor than an iPhone and a better lens. You're mental.

I'm not mental, but sometimes I forget to spell things out for the people who find it hard to grasp these things.

Different camera's have different sized sensors. As a general rule of thumb, the bigger the sensor, the better the image quality.

This means that generally larger sensors provide better image quality, but the rule isn't without exception. Sometimes clever architecture innovations can make up for inherent disadvantages (iphone sensor is actually only a little smaller than TZ18), in this instance it's 'Back Side-Illumination' present on the iphone 4 & further improved on the 4s.
Iphone 4 and especially 4s also have a wider aperture lens than the TZ18. The TZ18 does has the advantage of zoom, but squeezing soo much zoom in a little package no doubt has reduced it's sharpness and thus image quality (An example would be prime Vs zoom lenses).

So imo from what I'v seen of the 14mp lumix sensor, the TZ18 may be worse than the iphone 4 and is probably worse than the 4s in terms of image quality.

From what I understand, the smallest green box below is the size of the lumix sensor, and without any clever innovation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sensor_sizes_overlaid_inside_-_updated.svg


If you don't understand someone in the future, maybe ask them for an explanation rather than accuse them of mental illness.

 

[ps3ud0]

What really confuses me if An Exceptions facts are correct (I dont doubt the logic and agree with whats been presented at face value - though the 20D comparison seems very idealised) then pretty much all non M43 compact sensors are inferior to the iP4(S) which could be correct, as Ive always been impressed by some of the good light shots Ive taken in the past, its only when you need illumination or any kind of zoom that it fails miserably (but thats phone cameras in general).

Thats the main 2 reasons of this purchase, though I am worried that some assumptions Ive made arent correct anymore and that the improvement from iP4 to TZ18 wont be as markedly as I thought, though I suspect the experience as a whole will be a lot better as it will probably be able to service my needs in far more circumstances.

Im aware that 14MP compact sensors arent great after reading a TZ18 review, and tend to be noisy, could this not be remedied for 99% of situations by using a lower MP setting and not attempting to use the full zoom length?

Im enjoying the discussion, its given me some more insight, though I guess for most this is old, tired ground - ultimately it is making me rethink that that £100 could be better used, but as Im a SIMO iP4 user Im not too interested in upgrading my phone currently; the only alternative is these M43 cameras but I know so little of them and the quick look Ive done into pricing puts them into entry-level SLR territory, so what are their point? Considering that, does it mean my £100 should just stay in my pocket?!?

ps3ud0

 

[An Exception]

Ive always been impressed by some of the good light shots Ive taken in the past, its only when you need illumination or any kind of zoom that it fails miserably (but thats phone cameras in general).

Pretty much all camera's suck in really low light, even full frame DSLR's with wide aperture lenses can struggle.
The solution to lot's of noise and motion blur from slow shutter speeds in many cases is to use flash.
Bare direct flash looks disgusting in most cases on a DSLR and compact, only with a compact the flash is often too close to the lens causing red eye and thus looks even more disgusting.
The solution to that is to bounce the flash off a large surface, something not easily done with a compact.

Thats the main 2 reasons of this purchase, though I am worried that some assumptions Ive made arent correct anymore and that the improvement from iP4 to TZ18 wont be as markedly as I thought, though I suspect the experience as a whole will be a lot better as it will probably be able to service my needs in far more circumstances.

At best imo, It certainly won't be much of an upgrade. At worst, a decent downgrade

Im aware that 14MP compact sensors arent great after reading a TZ18 review, and tend to be noisy, could this not be remedied for 99% of situations by using a lower MP setting and not attempting to use the full zoom length?

No, unfortunately I presume the camera simply resizes the image. You can do this yourself with software.
As for the zoom, IQ won't necessarily get worse as you zoom out, it depends where the sweet spot is, but even so will likely be fairly consistent throughout the zoom range.

Im enjoying the discussion, its given me some more insight, though I guess for most this is old, tired ground - ultimately it is making me rethink that that £100 could be better used, but as Im a SIMO iP4 user Im not too interested in upgrading my phone currently; the only alternative is these M43 cameras but I know so little of them and the quick look Ive done into pricing puts them into entry-level SLR territory, so what are their point?

You can potentially get close to DSLR quality in your jacket. In some cases like the X100, you actually get superior IQ than some higher end DSLR's.

http://www.photographyblog.com/articles/fujifilm_x100_noise_head-to-head/2

Considering that, does it mean my £100 should just stay in my pocket?!?

ps3ud0

Yes, I would. At least until I had the budget for a worthy upgrade to my IP4.

 

[Vimes]

Rather than create a thread I thought that I would ask here, if that's ok..?

My wife and me tend to use our Fuji Finepix F10...

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/FujifilmF10Zoom/

for indoor and night group type shots as its relatively low noise and good output in those conditions still seems to surpass many of the models which went on to replace it.
My sister in laws Panasonic TZ8 seemed to perform quite poorly at a Christmas family gathering compared to the Finepix.

Is there anything available in the compact range from today's cameras which can improve on the image quality of the Fuji noted in similar low light conditions...?

 

[An Exception]

^^^
Depends on budget tbh.

 

[Vimes]

Max of £300 for the type of usage as noted.