*****Official Star Wars: The Old Republic Thread*****

The difference being, BW can develop the end game from here. right now there is enough to keep me interested with the stories and PVP, The End Game isn't everything with this title unlike other MMO's.

This is probably the first MMO in a long time that has a genuinely great start point, MMO's are built over time, people expecting wow amount of content from initial release are for lack of a better word, stupid.

WoW on vanilla release was immeasurably more mundane than this, with 1 Raid instance (Molten Core) as your endgame which you weren't getting anywhere with unless you had a dedicated team of 40.

Thats a bit of a stupid argument, and i only say that because you pointed it out. Comparisons with WoW should be judged on what it is now, or at least what it has been over the last five years and $150 million in development. Its clear that not all of woWs game is levelling. theres a mnassive game after you hit the cap, and im sure its now the main game, especially with LFR. Whats the argument there? they werent expecting lots of players? lots of hardcore fly-through-levels players?

When considering your competitors you dont say 'lets look at what they were like from a decade ago' you say 'what lessons can we learn from them now?' - As you say there was little endgame when vanilla wow launched, something they have remedied since.
 
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Thats a bit of a stupid argument, and i only say that because you pointed it out. Comparisons with WoW should be judged on what it is now, or at least what it has been over the last five years and $150 million in development. Its clear that not all of woWs game is levelling. theres a mnassive game after you hit the cap, and im sure its now the main game, especially with LFR. Whats the argument there? they werent expecting lots of players? lots of hardcore fly-through-levels players?

When considering your competitors you dont say 'lets look at what they were like from a decade ago' you say 'what lessons can we learn from them now?' - As you say there was little endgame when vanilla wow launched, something they have remedied since.

World of Warcraft as it is now is 12 years worth of development, it had 4-5 years development prior to Vanilla release, you can't do that now. SW-TOR had 3 years development.

You can't possibly expect them to release a game the same size in content as WoW in a quarter of the development time. Nevermind the fact TOR is massively more story driven and RPG like than WoW and this is just 1 month after release. Give it time, SW-TOR will come good, smashing it with judge-stick now is just stupid, it has a few bugs, but it has development possibilities, and that's what matters.
 
Don't forget WoW had ~4-5 years in development and 5 years post launch to add content...

And don't forget that TOR is a direct competitor of WoW & will be judged against how WoW is now, not what it was at release.

Devils advocate of course, WoW bored me to tears ;)
 
Don't forget WoW had ~4-5 years in development and 5 years post launch to add content...

True, and given the scale of the main game with all the voice acting, theres no doubt most of their attention went there. It seems there are plenty of people working their way through the main game content anyway still, hopefully enough to keep the game ticking over and new content to be added. Then in 6 months we can retry it, going to give Conan a bash now, work my way through all the F2P offerings.
 
And don't forget that TOR is a direct competitor of WoW & will be judged against how WoW is now, not what it was at release.

Devils advocate of course, WoW bored me to tears ;)

Every MMO that is released is put beside WoW, regardless of the MMO theme.
 
Might be a little late making this comment but calling Warhammer Online a more complete game at launch is laughable.

A game that shipped without 4 of its classes is not more complete and they never did add the other racial captial cities. For all its flaws and fails, ToR pretty much has everything it was supposed to ship with.

Only bonus Warhammer Online has is that its slight proof that EA is willing to keep a pretty much dead MMO online long past its prime. Unless of course theres something in the license terms with Games Workshop that makes them need to keep it alive.
 
Only bonus Warhammer Online has is that its slight proof that EA is willing to keep a pretty much dead MMO online long past its prime. Unless of course theres something in the license terms with Games Workshop that makes them need to keep it alive.

I think we are really in unknown territory here with how much is riding on this. Half a billion, how can that be accurate? I suppose we keep an eye on Riccitiello!

“I think it’s safe to say that the total all-in investment in Star Wars is probably approaching half a billion dollars,” Cowen & Co analyst Doug Creutz told MarketWatch.

“EA has minimised its risks as much as it can on this bet, but it’s still a risky bet. To the extent that any one game defines his (John Riccitiello) tenure, it’s going to be how ‘Star Wars’ performs.”
 
The reason MMO's dont really work now is they dont make the game community led.

SWG did it, you have to rely on other players for everything, weapons, food, armour, buffs, houses, storage everything and it worked.

The guild you were in was the community, most people could make the same gear but it was different depending on the materials you made it with.

It satisfied the RP community, they were your dancers and would walk around patrolling Mos Eisley night after night. They would be your crafters and would make the house you would live in. The Mayor run the town, set it up, some of them looked amazing and you kept a tresure trove in your own house with lots of memorys.

The PVP guys got what they wanted and those that wanted to quest did. If they had stayed as they were it would still be going now.

All the other games that have arrrived have made crafting worthless, I want to love SWTOR but im struggling, it wants to be an MMO yet it add nothing for guilds apart from a bugged members window, you cant even group in space. The combat in space is made for a 5 year old, my boy plays it, its a joke to be honest.

Bounty Hunter class that cannot get player bounty missions, you would have thought it would be the first thing someone would have thought of.

I will still play and hope they patch and fix, and add new stuff but a lot have gone and gamers dont forgive now and they dont come back.
 
Is the patch downloadable yet, anyone know? I'd like to get it patched remotely so I can have a quick game when I get home before going out :p.
 
smashing it with judge-stick now is just stupid, it has a few bugs, but it has development possibilities, and that's what matters.

I'm not sure it has really. They can expand using the same template - additional planets with the usual kill quests, but the way the game is structured doesn't really lend itself to new and innovative stuff. The game just doesn't seem to be able to handle large numbers of toons onscreen at once, which is a major restriction to doing anything genuinely interesting.
 
Yep, SWG was indeed utterly fantastic. The amount of depth to it was unbelievably, they managed to get so much right with it at the start. But the key ingredient was the fact that it was a sandbox MMO. I fondly remember logging in for the first time, doing the tutorial, and then loading into the game world and having absolutely no clue what to do next. I was a Zabrak, and I ended up running outside of town and promptly getting murdered in the face by a really stupidly low-conned mob out there. After that I remember just standing around speechless because I didn't know where to go next. That initial steep learning curve, and the unforgiving environment that you were presented with, created one of the best MMO's out there. I loved the fact that other players could teach you skills if they knew them, that you couldn't speak every alien language unless you learned it, the sharnaff hunts every night outside Coronet, player housing, the huge player cities that you could build with a player being the actual mayor (and Politics being a skill tree all of it's very own), an economy that was dominated not by an auction house or marketplace, but by player-stocked vendors in the player-cities. The shifting resources that one day would be absolutely amazing in a single location, and then all of a sudden they could be terrible. Crafting items, experimenting on them, trying to squeeze out the absolute best stats that you could, and then creating a schematic from the prototype and loading that up into a factory with all your mats, to churn out hundreds of them over a few days. Relying on player characters to create power cells for these factories, and other players for so much else. Sometimes you'd travel far and wide just to get to a well-known vendor because they sent you an ingame mail to say that their latest batch of Vibroknuckler or whatever has amazing stats on it. Everyone had a purpose in SWG, and it was this that made it so great. MMO companies really do shoot themselves in the foot, because they create so much content for us in the latest incarnations of MMO's, but if they actually realised that player-created content is so much more varied and better. Everyday in SWG was different, because things were organised by the players.

Our Player Association (Guild) would constantly be doing all sorts of cool stuff in an evening. We'd be off holding off the Imperials in Bestine, or protecting Anchorhead from attacks of AT-ST's and other Imperials, or we'd head off for a bit of rancor hunting on Dathomir. We'd have meetings with our Rebel war council, and then organise a massive attack on an Imperial base that had just been put up that afternoon. Or I'd be out surveying the land for the latest resource shift on wheat that was needed to craft doctor buffs. I could spend an hour buffing rebels outside Coronet spaceport, flagged for PvP and refusing the buff Imperials because I chose to play my character that way. The list was quite literally endless. And it was all created by me and everyone else.

It was so lame of SOE, John Smedley in particular, to think that he knew better than those players, so much so that he felt the need to alter everything that was great about SWG and turn it into nothing useful at all. It's such a shame that nobody at SOE could hold their hand up and say that they'd made a mistake. If they'd have rolled back, or even provided a few servers as it was prior to the combat upgrade and later NGE that ruined SWG, I bet SWG would still be thriving right now. I for one know that I wouldn't have stopped playing it.

Such a good post and one that makes me well up a little bit, and extremely ******* angry.

Forgetting about the bugs, how could you read that post and not want to play that game? And you've only scratched the surface. The PvP massacres that happened at the bottom of the borgyle cave on Rori, which seemed to be the only place that dropped the crafting skill tapes and the fights to get them. The questline to even get the schematic for the RIS armour, and the effort it took to get the special pieces to make it (bloody Giant Dune Kimo's on Lok, if I ever see another one of them it'll be too soon! :D) so when you saw someone with it on, you knew that someone had taken a lot of time and care to make that one suit of armour.
Trying to get the babies from them half monkey-half spider things I've forgotten the name of on Endor, and the trek from Dantooine starport to the Crystal Caves there before vehicles. Took about 20 mins running in a grp with a ranger for the speed buff! And the joy I had when I got my first vehicle. An x-34 landspeeder, just like Luke had. I just went driving for ages in it, cruising round like a boss (and going bloody slowly up hills).

I could talk about the game for hours.
 
It's human nature though, comparing something new against experience/feelings of something else which is similar.

It's like girls. SWG is getting on a bit now and is a bit plain looking, but had a great personality and was lots of fun.

TOR is great looking, famous and really thinks a lot of herself, but looks at you funny when you suggest doing that thing with the baby oil.
 
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